All Time Non-HOF Starting 9

boilermaker · 06-10-2005, 03:49 AM

I'm wondering if the collective intelligence of this forum might be able to construct an All Time baseball team...who are the best players to never make the Hall of Fame? The very best at their position, but without Cooperstown addresses.

Preferably all of these players are retired, but I guess someone at the very end of their career so long as you contend they won't make it but deserve to be on this list.

And, yes, Pete Rose should be an obvious choice.

sebastian0622 · 06-10-2005, 03:57 AM

I'll throw out some names for consumption from off the top of my head. Keep in mind I'm a youngin':

Joe Jackson, Dick Allen, Mark Grace, Fred McGriff, Bret Boone, Jack McDowell (if we get him at his prime, same with Doc Gooden), John Smotz if he doesn't get in, Brian Giles and Bobby Abreu won't get in but I'd take them on this team, Albert Belle, Will Clark, Daryl Strawberry...

CBL-Commish · 06-10-2005, 09:11 AM

Jimmy Ryan

George VanHaltren

Bill Dahlen

Dwight Evans

Darrell Evans

Harry Stovey

Dummy Hoy

Bert Blyleven

Tommy Bridges

Jack Stivetts

Tony Mullane

Urban Shocker

rangerforlife · 06-10-2005, 10:02 AM

Ron Santo, for one...

Jason Moyer · 06-10-2005, 10:04 AM

Not counting ineligible players:

C - Ted Simmons
1B - Don Mattingly
2B - Lou Whitaker (with apologies to Bobby Grich)
3B - Ron Santo
SS - Alan Trammell
LF - Minnie Minoso (until Raines is eligible)
CF - Jimmy Wynn
RF - Dave Parker
SP - Bert Blyleven
RP - Goose Gossage

Ragin Cajun · 06-10-2005, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

Not counting ineligible players:

C - Ted Simmons
1B - Don Mattingly
2B - Lou Whitaker (with apologies to Bobby Grich)
3B - Ron Santo
SS - Alan Trammell
LF - Minnie Minoso (until Raines is eligible)
CF - Jimmy Wynn
RF - Dave Parker
SP - Bert Blyleven
RP - Goose Gossage

Solid list, it's a crime that the Cobra isn't in. Same with Santo.

darkhorse · 06-10-2005, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian0622

Bobby Abreu won't get in

That's an assumption I wouldn't make.

Jason Moyer · 06-10-2005, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkhorse

That's an assumption I wouldn't make.

I'd put money on it. A corner outfielder playing in this era is going to need milestones and/or fame to get in, and he has little chance of either.

Dagrims · 06-10-2005, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

I'd put money on it. A corner outfielder playing in this era is going to need milestones and/or fame to get in, and he has little chance of either.

I agree with this. He's playing in relative obscurity in Philly. He's not in the top 15 in adjusted OPS among active players, although there are players below him that will likely make the hall (Sosa, Palmeiro) because of milestones reached. He rarely leads the league in anything, and he can't sniff the top 20 in MVP voting (undeservedly but the MVP voters are looking for much of the same things that HOF voters are). He'd need a .300/.400/.525 line for each of the next six or seven seasons with 100 runs/100 RBI and probably 20-30 steals per year to get significant support, but if he doesn't get out of Philly I still don't think that would be enough to convince the voters.

He's having an excellent season so far in 2005. With April and May traditionally his slowest months, if the Phillies stay in contention all season and he keeps hitting he could start getting some serious MVP consideration for a change.

darkhorse · 06-10-2005, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

I'd put money on it. A corner outfielder playing in this era is going to need milestones and/or fame to get in, and he has little chance of either.

Would a 2005 MVP Award do the trick?

Rasmuth · 06-10-2005, 12:53 PM

1B - Steve Garvey or Gil Hodges

rogmax11 · 06-10-2005, 01:04 PM

Jim Rice
Reggie Smith
Jim Gilliam
Luis Aparicio
Tommy John
Maury Wills
Ike Boone

billethius · 06-10-2005, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasmuth

1B - Steve Garvey or Gil Hodges

I might sacrifice some defense and put Edgar Martinez at first.

Tib · 06-10-2005, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogmax11

Jim Rice
Reggie Smith
Jim Gilliam
Luis Aparicio
Tommy John
Maury Wills
Ike Boone

"

and I would add Jose Cruz, Harold Baines and Al Oliver.

Cowboys3356 · 06-10-2005, 01:29 PM

For the moment the starting CF is without question Eric "The Red" Davis but since he will eventually end up in the HOF that might eliminate him from consideration. Davis won the 1990 World Series by himself while playing with a ruptured spleen. Even with damaged organs, Davis would not be denied a World Series ring! Eric's 1987 season is still one of the greatest seasons of all time as he hit 37 home runs (without help from steriods), had 100 RBIs, and 50 stolen bases in just 129 games. He also won the Roberto Clemente Award in 1997 which speaks for itself. Eric is a true "5 tool" player and gave it is all everytime he took the field!

Chappy · 06-10-2005, 02:14 PM

Bo Jackson says you should include Bo Jackson.

Cowboys3356 · 06-10-2005, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chappy

Bo Jackson says you should include Bo Jackson.

That is a good point by Bo Jackson and of course Bo knows baseball so we better listen to him!

We could put Bo in LF, Eric in CF, and Jose Canseco in RF! That lineup would be unbeatable! They could all steal 50 bases a year and hit 50 home runs a year...now that would be impressive.

Jordan · 06-10-2005, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowboys3356

For the moment the starting CF is without question Eric "The Red" Davis but since he will eventually end up in the HOF that might eliminate him from consideration. Davis won the 1990 World Series by himself while playing with a ruptured spleen. Even with damaged organs, Davis would not be denied a World Series ring! Eric's 1987 season is still one of the greatest seasons of all time as he hit 37 home runs (without help from steriods), had 100 RBIs, and 50 stolen bases in just 129 games. He also won the Roberto Clemente Award in 1997 which speaks for itself. Eric is a true "5 tool" player and gave it is all everytime he took the field!

I have no idea where you got the reputation of being an Eric Davis fanboy....

dsvitak · 06-10-2005, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chappy

Bo Jackson says you should include Bo Jackson.

I had the Bo Jackson baseball video game many years ago.

I read a review on it that said the programmers added 50 points on to his average, and chopped his strikeout rate in half.

This about sums up how I feel about Bo Jackson.

Next comment: Vascular degeneration is part and parcel of steroid abuse. I work with a guy with the IDENTICAL hip replacement Bo had, and my co-worker was on steroids (for severe allergies) for several years.

Take a look at Bo's physique, and tell me that he isn't a poster child for steroid abuse. Jeez.

Jason Moyer · 06-10-2005, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowboys3356

We could put Bo in LF, Eric in CF, and Jose Canseco in RF! That lineup would be unbeatable! They could all steal 50 bases a year and hit 50 home runs a year...now that would be impressive.

Uh, none of those guys ever hit 50 homeruns in a year, and Bo's career high in steals was 27.

More than likely you'd end up needing 3 more outfielders to cover the 40 games each of them would miss every year with injuries.

06-10-2005, 03:49 AM	#1
boilermaker All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,956	All Time Non-HOF Starting 9 I'm wondering if the collective intelligence of this forum might be able to construct an All Time baseball team...who are the best players to never make the Hall of Fame? The very best at their position, but without Cooperstown addresses. Preferably all of these players are retired, but I guess someone at the very end of their career so long as you contend they won't make it but deserve to be on this list. And, yes, Pete Rose should be an obvious choice.

06-10-2005, 09:11 AM	#3
CBL-Commish All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,999	Jimmy Ryan George VanHaltren Bill Dahlen Dwight Evans Darrell Evans Harry Stovey Dummy Hoy Bert Blyleven Tommy Bridges Jack Stivetts Tony Mullane Urban Shocker __________________ For the best in O's news: Orioles' Hangout.com

06-10-2005, 10:04 AM	#5
Jason Moyer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 5,106	Not counting ineligible players: C - Ted Simmons 1B - Don Mattingly 2B - Lou Whitaker (with apologies to Bobby Grich) 3B - Ron Santo SS - Alan Trammell LF - Minnie Minoso (until Raines is eligible) CF - Jimmy Wynn RF - Dave Parker SP - Bert Blyleven RP - Goose Gossage __________________ "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses." -- Tom House "I was very fortunate to have a pitching coach by the name of Tom House...Tom, I really miss those days that we spent in the weight room and out on the field working together." -- Nolan Ryan's HoF Induction Speech

06-10-2005, 12:53 PM	#11
Rasmuth All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Upstate Western NY Posts: 1,760	1B - Steve Garvey or Gil Hodges __________________ http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...?bandID=250426

06-10-2005, 03:57 AM	#2
sebastian0622 Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,465	I'll throw out some names for consumption from off the top of my head. Keep in mind I'm a youngin': Joe Jackson, Dick Allen, Mark Grace, Fred McGriff, Bret Boone, Jack McDowell (if we get him at his prime, same with Doc Gooden), John Smotz if he doesn't get in, Brian Giles and Bobby Abreu won't get in but I'd take them on this team, Albert Belle, Will Clark, Daryl Strawberry...

06-10-2005, 10:02 AM	#4
rangerforlife Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: I want to hear from a clone! React to me!!! Posts: 225	Ron Santo, for one...

06-10-2005, 01:04 PM	#12
rogmax11 All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,320	Jim Rice Reggie Smith Jim Gilliam Luis Aparicio Tommy John Maury Wills Ike Boone

06-10-2005, 01:29 PM	#15
Cowboys3356 All Star Starter Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,571	For the moment the starting CF is without question Eric "The Red" Davis but since he will eventually end up in the HOF that might eliminate him from consideration. Davis won the 1990 World Series by himself while playing with a ruptured spleen. Even with damaged organs, Davis would not be denied a World Series ring! Eric's 1987 season is still one of the greatest seasons of all time as he hit 37 home runs (without help from steriods), had 100 RBIs, and 50 stolen bases in just 129 games. He also won the Roberto Clemente Award in 1997 which speaks for itself. Eric is a true "5 tool" player and gave it is all everytime he took the field!

06-10-2005, 02:14 PM	#16
Chappy Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 2,721	Bo Jackson says you should include Bo Jackson.