The PTCS stuff using a 5 man rotation

[zevus]

4 man rotation is appropriate for 1969, not 5 man. Since I set all my stuff up for 4 man, they're going to do very poorly

Probably the info should be displayed somewhere when setting up teams

or, rather, 2 out of 4 already lost, a 3rd is down 4-1 and managed to win two games with starters at ~75% (and no way to fix this, as the team was put together with, well, four starters)

The final team got lucky and won the first series in 5 games and I happened to have drafted a 5th player that could be a starter,

despite it telling me that it was using 1969 settings.

it looks like in 2 out of those 3 cases, it was lost to a malformed team with 5 starters on 1969 settings. In one of the cases, it looks like the guy logged on early enough after tourney started to "fix" his roster to the wrong settings, as his 5th starter was still displaying the "reliever" tag and one of his starters had pitched on 4 days rest. As is appropriate for 1969, but not for PTCS using 1969 settings.

[cwhitman]

Originally Posted by zevus

4 man rotation is appropriate for 1969, not 5 man. Since I set all my stuff up for 4 man, they're going to do very poorly

Probably the info should be displayed somewhere when setting up teams

or, rather, 2 out of 4 already lost, a 3rd is down 4-1 and managed to win two games with starters at ~75% (and no way to fix this, as the team was put together with, well, four starters)

The final team got lucky and won the first series in 5 games and I happened to have drafted a 5th player that could be a starter,

despite it telling me that it was using 1969 settings.

it looks like in 2 out of those 3 cases, it was lost to a malformed team with 5 starters on 1969 settings. In one of the cases, it looks like the guy logged on early enough after tourney started to "fix" his roster to the wrong settings, as his 5th starter was still displaying the "reliever" tag and one of his starters had pitched on 4 days rest. As is appropriate for 1969, but not for PTCS using 1969 settings.

1969 has never been 4 starters in PT. it has always been 5.


1959 is the first year you can use 4. And 1917 or so is the first with 3.

[zevus]

I guess some quick AI searches talk about the 5 man rotation becoming more common in the 1970's, but really it's more like the 80's and 90's and pretty clear to see.

re; 1969, you can just look at individual player stats, such as;

https://www.baseball-almanac.com/pla...nkife01&y=1969
https://www.baseball-almanac.com/pla...rryga01&y=1969
https://www.baseball-almanac.com/pla...laide01&y=1969
https://www.baseball-almanac.com/pla...rlejo01&y=1969
https://www.baseball-almanac.com/pla...aveto01&y=1969
https://www.baseball-almanac.com/pla...ngebi01&y=1969
https://www.baseball-almanac.com/pla...ttodo01&y=1969
https://www.baseball-almanac.com/pla...antlu01&y=1969

and on and on and on, to see all the starters going on 4 days rest and still pitching complete games, apparently not being at whatever "70% rest" status signifies and getting gassed at 75 pitches, like what was happening in the PTCS.

re; 1960's being 5 man rotations -- OK, so it's always been wrong ... so the teams weren't malformed then, there is just some inside information that isn't actually presented in the game itself for some reason or another and goes against standard rotation sizes used in the 60's.

A better question than why the rotation size is wrong, would be why this information isn't presented in the game when you're forming your team, right?

Why does it always default to 5 starters, even when asking AI to set up rotation?

... and the last two months I've been using 4 man rotations on stuff like the 1968 "Saturday Can't Sleep Clown Will Eat Me", becauase ... well, 4 man rotation was the standard in 1968, just like 1969. Why would I even think that it'd be leaving my starters at 70% effectiveness?

I guess *there* is a reason to look at the results, to find out if OOTP is using non-standard rotation sizes .. you certainly aren't provided with any other useful information

[TwinsFan86]

Originally Posted by zevus

I guess some quick AI searches talk about the 5 man rotation becoming more common in the 1970's, but really it's more like the 80's and 90's and pretty clear to see.

re; 1969, you can just look at individual player stats, such as;

https://www.baseball-almanac.com/pla...nkife01&y=1969
https://www.baseball-almanac.com/pla...rryga01&y=1969
https://www.baseball-almanac.com/pla...laide01&y=1969
https://www.baseball-almanac.com/pla...rlejo01&y=1969
https://www.baseball-almanac.com/pla...aveto01&y=1969
https://www.baseball-almanac.com/pla...ngebi01&y=1969
https://www.baseball-almanac.com/pla...ttodo01&y=1969
https://www.baseball-almanac.com/pla...antlu01&y=1969

and on and on and on, to see all the starters going on 4 days rest and still pitching complete games, apparently not being at whatever "70% rest" status signifies and getting gassed at 75 pitches, like what was happening in the PTCS.

re; 1960's being 5 man rotations -- OK, so it's always been wrong ... so the teams weren't malformed then, there is just some inside information that isn't actually presented in the game itself for some reason or another and goes against standard rotation sizes used in the 60's.

A better question than why the rotation size is wrong, would be why this information isn't presented in the game when you're forming your team, right?

Why does it always default to 5 starters, even when asking AI to set up rotation?

... and the last two months I've been using 4 man rotations on stuff like the 1968 "Saturday Can't Sleep Clown Will Eat Me", becauase ... well, 4 man rotation was the standard in 1968, just like 1969. Why would I even think that it'd be leaving my starters at 70% effectiveness?

I guess *there* is a reason to look at the results, to find out if OOTP is using non-standard rotation sizes .. you certainly aren't provided with any other useful information

AI isn’t even remotely a credible source on a lot of research, so I’d always take that with a grain of salt.

Congratulations on finding a few exceptions to the rule, and even at that, they had plenty of starts on 4+ days of rest. 3 days of rest wasn’t the norm at all. If you look at, for example, the Mets and Orioles in 1969 they both had 5 pitchers that were predominantly starters. I think what’s much more likely is that when there was an opportunity the 5th and even 4th starters were skipped. You could feasibly make an argument for guys with higher stamina recovering slightly better so that occasionally 3 day of rest is doable, but to claim that it was just the standard for everyone is simply wrong.

[LeeD]

There were a lot more rainouts, a lot more doubleheaders, thus a lot more days off in the Sixties. Teams could get by on four primary starters, but they weren't starting every fourth day very often. Most teams had a top three or four plus a swing man or two to cover the doubleheaders and the stretches without a scheduled day off.

Tom Seaver won the Cy Young Award in 1969 on 35 starts and a single two-batter relief appearance. He only started eight times on three days' rest, and three of those were during the pennant chase in September (six September starts, six complete games, six wins, sheesh).

[cwhitman]

I've seen a lot of people think 1969 is 4 starters lately, and I don't think it's just historic (mis)information. Has someone been telling people that 1969 is 4? If so, we definitely need to tell them to stop doing that.

[zrog2000]

Originally Posted by cwhitman

I've seen a lot of people think 1969 is 4 starters lately, and I don't think it's just historic (mis)information. Has someone been telling people that 1969 is 4? If so, we definitely need to tell them to stop doing that.

It's pretty easy to find the statistics. Several teams only used 4 in 1969. Dodgers had 3 starters with 40+ starts and that was still a 154 game schedule. 59 pitchers had more than 200 innings. 9 got to 300. Obviously, pitcher stamina should be way higher in 1969 than it is now and starters shouldn't be at 0% when they threw 95 pitches.

[zrog2000]

Originally Posted by LeeD

There were a lot more rainouts, a lot more doubleheaders, thus a lot more days off in the Sixties. Teams could get by on four primary starters, but they weren't starting every fourth day very often. Most teams had a top three or four plus a swing man or two to cover the doubleheaders and the stretches without a scheduled day off.

Tom Seaver won the Cy Young Award in 1969 on 35 starts and a single two-batter relief appearance. He only started eight times on three days' rest, and three of those were during the pennant chase in September (six September starts, six complete games, six wins, sheesh).

And Tom Seaver was tied for 47th in starts that season.