Way too many TOOTBLANs

EvvCat · 06-03-2025, 01:50 PM

Since the last update, the number of runners I see get thrown out trying to take an extra base has jumped to a very unrealistic amount. Between both my team and the CPU opponent I'm seeing 4-6 runners - at minimum - thrown out on the bases, outfielder-to-cutoff-to the base, every single game.

The .61 update came in the middle of a season for me, and the difference between the before and after baserunning in the same season is tremendous.

highandoutside · 06-03-2025, 01:57 PM

There are a lot, but I don't have a sense of the real-world rate to compare it to. It definitely feels excessive, however.

oldfatbaldguy · 06-04-2025, 01:17 PM

I'm seeing ultraconservative baserunning, too. Scoring from second on a single isn't the norm. Runners stay at third on a ground ball to a middle infielder, even if the infield is playing back.* The TOOTBLANs have always been an issue -- guys trying to take an extra base when the game situation says hell no -- but holding when they shouldn't hold is something I hadn't seen before.

*I know the animation can't be trusted to show you exactly what's happening, but if the infield is back and it's a 6-3, how often does the runner not score?

vxm · 06-05-2025, 08:33 AM

Agree with the above observations. I also see too many outfielder throws to home being cut off by an infielder and relayed to home. Another observation is potential infield double play balls with the bases loaded. Are going to home instead of to second even if the runner going to home is meaningless.

oldfatbaldguy · 06-06-2025, 03:58 AM

All the time. If I play the corners in and the middle infielders back, I don't want the shortstop throwing it home. If I wanted that, I'd have the whole infield in.

DocTDC · 06-08-2025, 10:23 AM

I agree, definitely seeing way more baserunners being thrown out after the cutoff. Not sure if this started after the last update or just a recent update. At least its happening for both my opponents as well. Probably something the devs shoud look at.

Sweed · 06-09-2025, 09:09 AM

The board has been so hit and miss lately on being able to get in and post I am just getting to replying to this thread.

My first game post patch I had three runners thrown out at 3b via cutoff and relay. All players from my team. First thought "it could happen". I'm probably 10 to 15 played out games since the patch and haven't seen that number again, but I have seen more that before the patch. Not every game and certainly not the "4-6 runners - at minimum" the OP is reporting. Not saying he is not seeing this, I'm just saying I'm not.

Could be a difference in LTM's between out games.

I'd guess in the 10 to 15 games I've played I've seen 8ish total including the three from the first post patch game. Not enough sample size to say it is an issue. I hate using "feels wrong" as a reason to say something is broke, and with what I am seeing in my game I wouldn't be demanding a fix. I would however, after seeing others post the issue, think it would be worth a look by Matt and the team to be sure something isn't off.

I haven't noticed the conservative baserunning that oldfatbaldguy is reporting in my game. My sample size though is very small.

Like DocTDC I am also seeing it happen to the cpu teams. Yeah, the first three times were all my players being cut down, but since then I'd say it's been pretty even user vs. cpu.

beepollen · 06-09-2025, 01:27 PM

Just a few of my observations:

1. The number of send/don't send decision pop-ups has fallen off the cliff in 26.

2. Almost all the runners I've seen thrown out are the batter/trail runner after the outfielder hits the cut-off man, with the play-by-play praising the OF for a great throw.

3. Like Sweed, it seems an even split between me and the CPU on whose runners are getting thrown out.

4. I've yet to see a runner on third thrown out at the plate on an attempted sac fly.

GirlPowerATL · 06-09-2025, 05:30 PM

Are you guys saying the play by play is saying the outfielder throws home and get the runner, however visually its showing the throw is to the cutoff man who than throws home to get the runner? Im just wanting to keep up with you guys lol

Sweed · 06-09-2025, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlPowerATL

Are you guys saying the play by play is saying the outfielder throws home and get the runner, however visually its showing the throw is to the cutoff man who than throws home to get the runner? Im just wanting to keep up with you guys lol

Most of mine have been the cutoff and throw to third. There have been some cut off and throw to second. I don't recall a cutoff and out at the plate.

Quinton_Upchurch · 06-10-2025, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlPowerATL

Are you guys saying the play by play is saying the outfielder throws home and get the runner, however visually its showing the throw is to the cutoff man who than throws home to get the runner? Im just wanting to keep up with you guys lol

I've seen this, yes. I think it might be a bug with the animation because the game log doesn't show the throw as being cut-off. It doesn't happen very often but I will note down the exact details when I see it again.

oldfatbaldguy · 06-10-2025, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beepollen

Just a few of my observations:

1. The number of send/don't send decision pop-ups has fallen off the cliff in 26.

2. Almost all the runners I've seen thrown out are the batter/trail runner after the outfielder hits the cut-off man, with the play-by-play praising the OF for a great throw.

3. Like Sweed, it seems an even split between me and the CPU on whose runners are getting thrown out.

4. I've yet to see a runner on third thrown out at the plate on an attempted sac fly.

I concur on 2 and 3. I think I have seen 4, but I'm not certain. 1 is N/A for me because I let the third-base coach handle it.

Pelican · 06-10-2025, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beepollen

Just a few of my observations:

1. The number of send/don't send decision pop-ups has fallen off the cliff in 26.

2. Almost all the runners I've seen thrown out are the batter/trail runner after the outfielder hits the cut-off man, with the play-by-play praising the OF for a great throw.

3. Like Sweed, it seems an even split between me and the CPU on whose runners are getting thrown out.

4. I've yet to see a runner on third thrown out at the plate on an attempted sac fly.

Agree with all of the above observations. I have not seen the pop-up decision pane this version of the game, not once, come to think of it. I actually forgot that feature existed. Was it eliminated?

Particularly given all this base chaos, I'd like to see an option, before the play starts, of "base-coaching". For those who remember APBA, the coach could tell the baserunner(s) to "play it safe" and not go for the extra base. It would mitigate some of the nonsense we are seeing on the bases.

omg_pwnasaurus · 06-10-2025, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelican

I have not seen the pop-up decision pane this version of the game, not once, come to think of it. I actually forgot that feature existed. Was it eliminated?

It still occurs just far less frequently and to the point where it seems much more unsuccessful than years past so I typically decline. I agree with the above where the cut off/runner out at 2nd/3rd base happens multiple times per game on average it seems.

I imagine it should be tied to base running aggressiveness rating + base coaching prowess (maybe with a little sprinkle of baseball IQ for the runner), but not sure if those TOOTBLANs are or not.

beepollen · 06-10-2025, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlPowerATL

Are you guys saying the play by play is saying the outfielder throws home and get the runner, however visually its showing the throw is to the cutoff man who than throws home to get the runner? Im just wanting to keep up with you guys lol

No, the play-by-play is correct, relating the outfielder's throw to the cut-off man, who then throws to second or third to get the trail runner – it's just that the narration goes on to praise the outfielder's tremendous throw. Which, sure, hitting the cut-off man is a skill, but by context you can tell the pxp is meant to describe a Puig-like rocket from the RF corner or some such.

(Also, come to think of it, why doesn't the pxp note when a runner made the first or third out at 3B? OOTP *can* be a teaching tool for baseball fundamentals, if we want it to be.)

Dorfmann · 06-10-2025, 01:16 PM

I feel like this is an overcorrection thing. In versions past, especially last year, trail runners were advancing way too often. I think instead of addressing whatever is causing these advance attempts, they're now just having the advance attempts be unsuccessful more often.

beepollen · 06-10-2025, 01:25 PM

One thing to note is that in my historic replays (mostly 80s and 90s), auto-calc for Outfield Assists always seems to come to .100. When I've played with setting that higher (.350, IIRC), lots of baserunners were getting thrown out on stupid decisions – many inning-enders at 3B, for example – and that took me out of the game.

NoOne · 06-10-2025, 02:04 PM

isn't what we see play out just an overlay? it's made to look relatively realistic but where a ball goes in the field is seperate from calculating outcomes etc... it's an aesthetic thing mostly related to the outcomes.

e.g. ootp determines a well-hit ball occured, then it chooses one of a few flight paths that would realistically result in a double ... but that is a superficial layer. This sort of thing could be adding to the perception but the underlying probabilities are fine despite what you see play out visually

NoOne · 06-10-2025, 02:06 PM

isn't what we see play out just an overlay? it's made to look relatively realistic but where a ball goes in the field is seperate from calculating outcomes etc... it's an aesthetic thing mostly related to the outcomes.

e.g. ootp determines a well-hit ball occured, then it chooses one of a few flight paths that would realistically result in a double ... but that is a superficial layer. This sort of thing could be adding to the perception but the underlying probabilities are fine despite what you see play out visually

06-03-2025, 01:50 PM	#1
EvvCat Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 77	Way too many TOOTBLANs Since the last update, the number of runners I see get thrown out trying to take an extra base has jumped to a very unrealistic amount. Between both my team and the CPU opponent I'm seeing 4-6 runners - at minimum - thrown out on the bases, outfielder-to-cutoff-to the base, every single game. The .61 update came in the middle of a season for me, and the difference between the before and after baserunning in the same season is tremendous.

06-10-2025, 01:16 PM	#16
Dorfmann Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 137	I feel like this is an overcorrection thing. In versions past, especially last year, trail runners were advancing way too often. I think instead of addressing whatever is causing these advance attempts, they're now just having the advance attempts be unsuccessful more often. Last edited by Dorfmann; 06-10-2025 at 01:22 PM. Reason: Clarity

06-03-2025, 01:57 PM	#2
highandoutside All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 675	There are a lot, but I don't have a sense of the real-world rate to compare it to. It definitely feels excessive, however.

06-04-2025, 01:17 PM	#3
oldfatbaldguy Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 364	I'm seeing ultraconservative baserunning, too. Scoring from second on a single isn't the norm. Runners stay at third on a ground ball to a middle infielder, even if the infield is playing back.* The TOOTBLANs have always been an issue -- guys trying to take an extra base when the game situation says hell no -- but holding when they shouldn't hold is something I hadn't seen before. *I know the animation can't be trusted to show you exactly what's happening, but if the infield is back and it's a 6-3, how often does the runner not score?

06-05-2025, 08:33 AM	#4
vxm Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 44	Agree with the above observations. I also see too many outfielder throws to home being cut off by an infielder and relayed to home. Another observation is potential infield double play balls with the bases loaded. Are going to home instead of to second even if the runner going to home is meaningless.

06-06-2025, 03:58 AM	#5
oldfatbaldguy Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2020 Posts: 364	All the time. If I play the corners in and the middle infielders back, I don't want the shortstop throwing it home. If I wanted that, I'd have the whole infield in.

06-08-2025, 10:23 AM	#6
DocTDC Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 20	I agree, definitely seeing way more baserunners being thrown out after the cutoff. Not sure if this started after the last update or just a recent update. At least its happening for both my opponents as well. Probably something the devs shoud look at.

06-09-2025, 01:27 PM	#8
beepollen All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 898	Just a few of my observations: 1. The number of send/don't send decision pop-ups has fallen off the cliff in 26. 2. Almost all the runners I've seen thrown out are the batter/trail runner after the outfielder hits the cut-off man, with the play-by-play praising the OF for a great throw. 3. Like Sweed, it seems an even split between me and the CPU on whose runners are getting thrown out. 4. I've yet to see a runner on third thrown out at the plate on an attempted sac fly.

06-09-2025, 05:30 PM	#9
GirlPowerATL Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2025 Location: Georgia Posts: 6	Are you guys saying the play by play is saying the outfielder throws home and get the runner, however visually its showing the throw is to the cutoff man who than throws home to get the runner? Im just wanting to keep up with you guys lol

06-10-2025, 01:25 PM	#17
beepollen All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 898	One thing to note is that in my historic replays (mostly 80s and 90s), auto-calc for Outfield Assists always seems to come to .100. When I've played with setting that higher (.350, IIRC), lots of baserunners were getting thrown out on stupid decisions – many inning-enders at 3B, for example – and that took me out of the game.

06-10-2025, 02:04 PM	#18
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,236	isn't what we see play out just an overlay? it's made to look relatively realistic but where a ball goes in the field is seperate from calculating outcomes etc... it's an aesthetic thing mostly related to the outcomes. e.g. ootp determines a well-hit ball occured, then it chooses one of a few flight paths that would realistically result in a double ... but that is a superficial layer. This sort of thing could be adding to the perception but the underlying probabilities are fine despite what you see play out visually

06-10-2025, 02:06 PM	#19
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,236	isn't what we see play out just an overlay? it's made to look relatively realistic but where a ball goes in the field is seperate from calculating outcomes etc... it's an aesthetic thing mostly related to the outcomes. e.g. ootp determines a well-hit ball occured, then it chooses one of a few flight paths that would realistically result in a double ... but that is a superficial layer. This sort of thing could be adding to the perception but the underlying probabilities are fine despite what you see play out visually