Ballpark Request - Lincoln Park Union Grounds

[asrivkin]

Thanks for the great material! To set an expectation, I'll hopefully be able to get this done in the next few weeks. I'm off on some work travel starting tomorrow, and won't have my OOTP/Sketchup laptop with me, but from what I'm seeing I don't think that it'll be too difficult to make the grandstand and field. As usual for me, the trick will be making the background and surrounding area something I don't hate, but I'll try and get over myself. I'm also happy to iterate on that if desired, or use a background or approach you suggest or prefer...

[DrDoom]

Originally Posted by asrivkin

Thanks for the great material! To set an expectation, I'll hopefully be able to get this done in the next few weeks. I'm off on some work travel starting tomorrow, and won't have my OOTP/Sketchup laptop with me, but from what I'm seeing I don't think that it'll be too difficult to make the grandstand and field. As usual for me, the trick will be making the background and surrounding area something I don't hate, but I'll try and get over myself. I'm also happy to iterate on that if desired, or use a background or approach you suggest or prefer...

No rush, take your time . I tend to hyper focus on things sometimes and I simply felt the need to share my findings on the Union Grounds with the void. Not trying to pester you specifically

As far as the background goes, if you want help, I'm happy to give it a go. Just let me know.

[DrDoom]

Attached is a detailed summary of a game at the Union Grounds that describes the atmosphere of a typical game at the field when the Red Stockings were playing there.

[DrDoom]

On October 19th, 1874, Barnum's Hippodrome paid a visit to the site of the Union Grounds. There was a hot-air balloon wedding there and, it turns out, somebody illustrated it and that picture was published a month later. Unfortunately, the Union Grounds are not visible in the drawing. Whether or not it is under the huge tents of the circus or it had been dismantled by now, I'm not really sure. Still, this is the only thing I could find that shows what it looked like around the Union Grounds near the time it was in heavy use. Most photos and illustrations of the area are from a decade or more later. It appears that east of Freeman (and probably north of Kenner) was the boundary for any real development at that time in that area of the West End as this drawing is showing west of Freeman to the rear of Lincoln Park, looking southwest over Kenner street. As you can see, there isn't a whole lot there - many of the roads from the 1870 city plan map aren't even there at this point.

I've also attached an illustration of the entrance into Lincoln Park from Freeman that was drawn around the same time.

[DrDoom]

Below is a contemporary illustration of the Union Grounds by Cincinnatian and content producer for the Reds HOF and Museum, Cam Miller.

QueenCityHistory

The Illustration is missing the roof over the seating along the left field line, but he did include the often-mentioned gate in right field.

It appears he's going off of the 550ft square estimate on the Union Terminal Historical marker. My original estimates of 360ft - 400ft square came from:

• A) The fact I had assumed the park was bound by streets, which we've since discovered weren't really there during the time the Union Grounds were still standing.
• B) BR Reference stating that the foul polls were only 150ft beyond the bases (240ft from homeplate).

At this point, I don't think anyone really knows the true dimensions of the field. It is entirely possible that a photo or accurate illustration of the park is out there somewhere sitting in a safe or an old chest in someone's attic but, until such a thing is made available to the public, I don't think we'll ever really know the true dimensions and full nature of the park.

[asrivkin]

Hi all!

I'm back from work travel and started poking at this today. I'm including a screenshot so you can see where this is (currently) heading. I made a rookie mistake and didn't check the thread today before starting, so missed the Cam Miller illustration, though what I've got so far maybe isn't so terribly far off as all that? I think I've made the Grand Duchess grander than the artists' depictions, I could try and scale it down if we think it's important.

I don't think the foul pole distance sets the size of the field in this period--this site, which I've leaned on a lot in my 19th-century efforts, notes that "The Foul Ball Posts were moved to the limits of the ground starting with the 1874 season". There's a quote somewhere (in the Wikipedia page?) that quotes the acreage of the site, which works out to 590 feet on a side if square. I agree that we're going to have to go with educated guesses here for the grandstand and field size...