OOTP Developments Forums - View Single Post

thehef · 01-14-2020, 05:26 AM

BLAME, PUNISHMENT, VERDICT

BLAME: BlackStros' owner Jim Crane: Did he know about it? He says he didn't. We may never know... He very well may not have, or maybe at most heard rumblings. He's an owner, possibly flying miles above the minutiae of what's going on in the clubhouse. Responsible as the owner of the team? Yes. But actually responsible? Not really.
PUNISHMENT: $5 million. That's peanuts to Crane, but that's the most a commish can fine an owner, so there's no point debating it... Crane also had to fire his GM and manager, and the replacements he hires will have to deal with the loss of draft picks.
VERDICT: Seems about right given Crane's likely insignificant amount of responsibility for the cheating, and the parameters of what the commissioner can do... although I would've added severe restrictions on how the BlackStros can display and acknowledge their 2017 titles (more on that way below).

BLAME: GM Jeff Luhnow: He claims he didn't know about it. Too soon, IMO, to make a determination as to whether that's believable or not.
PUNISHMENT: One year suspension, and got fired by Crane.
VERDICT: The suspension seems about right if he didn't know about it, because even if he didn't, he should have known. If he did know about it the suspension should've much been longer... As for the firing, it makes sense either way from a business continuity perspective, and from a "there's no time like the present to begin trying to put this ugly chapter behind us" perspective... Also, by many accounts, Luhnow was at the top of an overall baseball-operation culture that was arrogant and condescending to many people, including "low-level" employees and others around the team (and I'm assuming he was the one who hired former and disgraced Asst GM Brandon Taubman). In addition, he was presumably the one who spearheaded the effort to trade for Roberto Osuna. So he's not getting any sympathy from me...

BLAME: Manager AJ Hinch: He knew about it. He claims he tried to stop it by disconnecting and even smashing video monitors. What else should he have done about it? Well, as the clubhouse and dugout leader of the team, the players have to know he has their back. But not, of course, if they are committing major violations of rules that are in place to protect the integrity of the game. How could he have shut it down without "losing" his team and/or being seen as "the snitch?" I'll concede that he was in a difficult spot. However, if he were a strong enough man and leader, he could've put a stop to it without losing the respect of his team... And one has to wonder, why couldn't he have simply gone to his coach (Alex Cora - the apparent ringleader) and told him that it has to stop immediately? And this, in turn, begs the question: If Hinch was actually against the cheating scheme to where he was destroying video monitors to try to stop it, what sort of conversations was he having with Alex Cora about it? So count me as highly suspicious of Hinch's "opposition" to the scheme. (Methinks Hinch's video monitor thrashings were merely premeditated attempts at producing exculpatory evidence to be used later...)
PUNISHMENT: One year suspension, and he got axed by Crane.
VERDICT: As close as he was to the situation, and admitting to knowing about it, one year doesn't seem like enough. I would have given him three years. As for being fired, he had to go, just like Luhnow, if the Astros are to eventually put this behind them.

BLAME: Bench Coach (at the time) Alex Cora: Apparently, he was the ringleader.
PUNISHMENT: Has yet to come down but is expected to be severe. In my book, based upon what is known at the moment and not factoring in his cheating with the Red Sox, a lifetime ban is appropriate (with provisions for eventual reinstatement). From his leadership position, to not only know about it but to be the one coordinating it, that's almost unforgivable.

BLAME: BlackStros Players
PUNISHMENT: None, officially. Though, they will have to deal with the questions, and the figurative asterisks on both their 2017 title and the portion of their career that was impacted by the scheme.
VERDICT: "They got off light" doesn't begin to describe it...

Before going into more about the categories of players and what their punishment, IMO, should've been, I'll explain why I feel a comparison to the 1919 Black Sox - and thus a lifetime ban - is not quite appropriate:

The Black Sox accepted money to throw a World Series. The BlackStros broke the rules in order to get an edge. That one team broke known rules in an effort to lose and another broke known rules in an effort to win is of ZERO consequence to me, per se. In each case, their willful actions heavily tainted the results of the sports' championship. However, from the Black Sox players' perspective, there can be no doubt that they knew what they were doing was just plain wrong, clear as day. From the BlackStros players' perspective, however, a case could be made that while they knew they were breaking the rules, they were just taking the age-old craft of sign-stealing to higher levels. That's no excuse for breaking the rules, but is a significant differentiation from the Black Sox, IMO.

At any rate, IMO, if Manfred had any grapes at all, he would've administered something like the following punishments to the players and coaches:

1) For all batters deemed to have participated in the scheme, and all other coaches, a two-year suspension.
2) For all other players (pitchers, and batters to where it's not conclusively determined that they participated in the scheme), a one-year suspension.
3) For all players on the roster, and all coaches, they would have to return their rings. Reinstatement after suspension would be contingent, among other things, upon the return of their rings by a certain very-near-in-the-future date.
4) For all players and coaches, all prize money received from winning the 2017 Division, AL, and World Series would have to be returned (some sort of charity donation would make sense).

(I would certainly be sympathetic to September call-ups and other fringe two-weeks-in-the-majors type players who may have been only peripherally aware of the scheme, and would therefore show serious leniency for them in an appeals process. I mean, do we really expect a wide-eyed kid called up from double-A - who's suddenly surrounded by his idols - to become a whistle-blower?)

In addition, the organization would be prohibited from displaying or advertising anything that references or alludes to their 2017 Division, AL, or World Series championships. In perpetuity. No 2017 banners or trophies in the stadium. No 10-year celebration in 2027. No 2017 commemorative promo items given to fans. Nothing in the team store that references 2017.

Are these harsh penalties? Sure. But, to borrow from Cobra Mgr, if you are serious about deterring prohibited behavior that is unquestionably detrimental to the game, you have to do be serious about administering punishment to those responsible from breaking those rules. Without question, Manfred did no such thing when it comes to those MOST responsible, the players.

01-14-2020, 05:26 AM	#45
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 4,855	BLAME, PUNISHMENT, VERDICT BLAME: BlackStros' owner Jim Crane: Did he know about it? He says he didn't. We may never know... He very well may not have, or maybe at most heard rumblings. He's an owner, possibly flying miles above the minutiae of what's going on in the clubhouse. Responsible as the owner of the team? Yes. But actually responsible? Not really. PUNISHMENT: $5 million. That's peanuts to Crane, but that's the most a commish can fine an owner, so there's no point debating it... Crane also had to fire his GM and manager, and the replacements he hires will have to deal with the loss of draft picks. VERDICT: Seems about right given Crane's likely insignificant amount of responsibility for the cheating, and the parameters of what the commissioner can do... although I would've added severe restrictions on how the BlackStros can display and acknowledge their 2017 titles (more on that way below). BLAME: GM Jeff Luhnow: He claims he didn't know about it. Too soon, IMO, to make a determination as to whether that's believable or not. PUNISHMENT: One year suspension, and got fired by Crane. VERDICT: The suspension seems about right if he didn't know about it, because even if he didn't, he should have known. If he did know about it the suspension should've much been longer... As for the firing, it makes sense either way from a business continuity perspective, and from a "there's no time like the present to begin trying to put this ugly chapter behind us" perspective... Also, by many accounts, Luhnow was at the top of an overall baseball-operation culture that was arrogant and condescending to many people, including "low-level" employees and others around the team (and I'm assuming he was the one who hired former and disgraced Asst GM Brandon Taubman). In addition, he was presumably the one who spearheaded the effort to trade for Roberto Osuna. So he's not getting any sympathy from me... BLAME: Manager AJ Hinch: He knew about it. He claims he tried to stop it by disconnecting and even smashing video monitors. What else should he have done about it? Well, as the clubhouse and dugout leader of the team, the players have to know he has their back. But not, of course, if they are committing major violations of rules that are in place to protect the integrity of the game. How could he have shut it down without "losing" his team and/or being seen as "the snitch?" I'll concede that he was in a difficult spot. However, if he were a strong enough man and leader, he could've put a stop to it without losing the respect of his team... And one has to wonder, why couldn't he have simply gone to his coach (Alex Cora - the apparent ringleader) and told him that it has to stop immediately? And this, in turn, begs the question: If Hinch was actually against the cheating scheme to where he was destroying video monitors to try to stop it, what sort of conversations was he having with Alex Cora about it? So count me as highly suspicious of Hinch's "opposition" to the scheme. (Methinks Hinch's video monitor thrashings were merely premeditated attempts at producing exculpatory evidence to be used later...) PUNISHMENT: One year suspension, and he got axed by Crane. VERDICT: As close as he was to the situation, and admitting to knowing about it, one year doesn't seem like enough. I would have given him three years. As for being fired, he had to go, just like Luhnow, if the Astros are to eventually put this behind them. BLAME: Bench Coach (at the time) Alex Cora: Apparently, he was the ringleader. PUNISHMENT: Has yet to come down but is expected to be severe. In my book, based upon what is known at the moment and not factoring in his cheating with the Red Sox, a lifetime ban is appropriate (with provisions for eventual reinstatement). From his leadership position, to not only know about it but to be the one coordinating it, that's almost unforgivable. BLAME: BlackStros Players PUNISHMENT: None, officially. Though, they will have to deal with the questions, and the figurative asterisks on both their 2017 title and the portion of their career that was impacted by the scheme. VERDICT: "They got off light" doesn't begin to describe it... Before going into more about the categories of players and what their punishment, IMO, should've been, I'll explain why I feel a comparison to the 1919 Black Sox - and thus a lifetime ban - is not quite appropriate: The Black Sox accepted money to throw a World Series. The BlackStros broke the rules in order to get an edge. That one team broke known rules in an effort to lose and another broke known rules in an effort to win is of ZERO consequence to me, per se. In each case, their willful actions heavily tainted the results of the sports' championship. However, from the Black Sox players' perspective, there can be no doubt that they knew what they were doing was just plain wrong, clear as day. From the BlackStros players' perspective, however, a case could be made that while they knew they were breaking the rules, they were just taking the age-old craft of sign-stealing to higher levels. That's no excuse for breaking the rules, but is a significant differentiation from the Black Sox, IMO. At any rate, IMO, if Manfred had any grapes at all, he would've administered something like the following punishments to the players and coaches: 1) For all batters deemed to have participated in the scheme, and all other coaches, a two-year suspension. 2) For all other players (pitchers, and batters to where it's not conclusively determined that they participated in the scheme), a one-year suspension. 3) For all players on the roster, and all coaches, they would have to return their rings. Reinstatement after suspension would be contingent, among other things, upon the return of their rings by a certain very-near-in-the-future date. 4) For all players and coaches, all prize money received from winning the 2017 Division, AL, and World Series would have to be returned (some sort of charity donation would make sense). (I would certainly be sympathetic to September call-ups and other fringe two-weeks-in-the-majors type players who may have been only peripherally aware of the scheme, and would therefore show serious leniency for them in an appeals process. I mean, do we really expect a wide-eyed kid called up from double-A - who's suddenly surrounded by his idols - to become a whistle-blower?) In addition, the organization would be prohibited from displaying or advertising anything that references or alludes to their 2017 Division, AL, or World Series championships. In perpetuity. No 2017 banners or trophies in the stadium. No 10-year celebration in 2027. No 2017 commemorative promo items given to fans. Nothing in the team store that references 2017. Are these harsh penalties? Sure. But, to borrow from Cobra Mgr, if you are serious about deterring prohibited behavior that is unquestionably detrimental to the game, you have to do be serious about administering punishment to those responsible from breaking those rules. Without question, Manfred did no such thing when it comes to those MOST responsible, the players.