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VanillaGorilla · 11-08-2012, 12:40 PM

The tensions between the camps in the selection committee reached a tipping point. The Blue Dogs, sick and tired of the pompous cacophony emanating from the Traditionalists and Saberheads, took charge.

All three entrants came from the leader boards.

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The Blue Dogs told the leaders of of the Traditionalists and Saberheads to shut up about all of their theoretical nonsense, and pulled support from members of each camp who had grown ashamed of their leadership and strong armed Denis Menke into the Hall. The Blue Dogs flipped off both camps by saying that Menke deserves induction because he had struck out more times than any other eligible candidate, and if he wasn't inducted, no one would be.

Denis Menke did strike out 1723 times, 4th on the All Time list, behind Willie Mays in the third position. But Menke was a very good player and is deserving of induction, but the Blue Dogs were making a point to the others by flexing their counter intuitive muscles. Enough voters from the other camps saw through the Blue Dog grandstanding on agreed with selection.

Menke played 2002 games at SS, 14th All-Time. He also played an additional 1000+ games at 2B and 3B in a career that started as a 9th over all pick in the 1951 draft.

He collected 2580 hits in 2902 games (also 14th) and posted a career slash line of 252/344/382 for a npa OPS+ of 106.

He made 8 All Star teams and played in 2 WS, winning with the Giants in 1965. He is the first player from this team to be enshrined, but he won't be the only one.

His best offensive season, from npa OPS+ standpoint, was in 1961 when he hit .275 with 27 HRs and scored 103 runs while posting a 133 npa OPS+.

Menke illustrates how important eras, or even specific seasons can be in influencing raw stats. In 1968 he had an OPS of .655 which was a npa OPS+ of 107. In 1970 he had an OPS of .739 which was also an npa OPS+ of 107.

Black Ink: 6 (0)
Gray Ink: 91 (11)
HOFm: 85 (10)
HOFs: 47 (18)

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Mike Lum enters on the basis of being the highest ranked eligible player on either the VORP or WAR lists. He is the only floor breaker in this class.

Mike Lum was a 3rd rd draft pick in 1920. He retired following the 1938 season having played his entire career with the Boston Red Sox.

6 times he hit over .300 and he ended his career with a .299 batting average and 2038 career hits. A .368 OBP and .441 slg% gives him a career npa OPS+ of 120.

A 3 time GG winner, Lum made one All Star appearance. He won 2 WS in three tries. In his rookie 1922 season, he contributed a .310 average as he and fellow HOF teammates Benny Kauff and Bret Saberhagen brought the title to Boston. In 1931 Mike Sirotka joined the Lum, Kauf, Saberhagen core as the Red Sox won, again.

Black: 12
Gray: 82
HOFm: 52
HOFs: 30

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Tom Sexton was also part of the Blue Dog flip off as they argued to the other camps that he deserved entry because now that Menke was in, Sexton had the most strikeouts of any hitter eligible but not in the Hall. While this is true, Sexton was an overlooked entry since he became eligible in 1977, literally.

Sexton's retirement was overlooked in 1971. He was on the spread sheet, but since he had been noted as retired, he didn't get consideration. I have back-up mechanisms for screening because there is a human element here. He would have been put into consideration eventually, but he just had not been, yet.

Sexton has the numbers to be in the HOF through standard standards. The Blue Dogs recognized this, but still chose to make the argument to the others that his strikeouts were the reason they wanted him in.

Sexton was the 7th player taken in the 1948 draft. IRL he only has data from 1884 (something about OOTP loving to develop these 1884 players).

He finished his career here with 2747 hits. His 2787 GP at SS are the mos ever. He also has the most walks as a SS, 1624, in the history of the league.

He was a teammate of Ken Griffey Jr in 1951 when they brought a WS title to Cincinnati.

A 5 time AS, Sexton won 2 GGs at SS as he posted a career slash line of 273/336/333 for a npa OPS+ of 101.

Though the Blue Dogs did pull him from the All Time strikeout list, Sexton's HOFm/s numbers are both above the current Hall averages.

Black: 24
Gray: 102
HOFm: 180
HOFs: 48

ADD: When I conceived of the model, I debated whether or not to include negative stat leaders (strikeouts, caught stealing for hitters, walks, losses for pitchers) as categories for consideration when going to the leader boards for entries. I decided to use them because the RL leaders in these categories are in the HOF. They are a result of playing a long time. I thought it would be a way of getting people in that slipped through cracks of the method, itself. As it turns out, in the case of Sexton, by using the strikeout list it captured a candidate that slipped through the cracks due to the imperfect human administration (me) of the model. Lum is the floor breaker, but he came from the WAR list, obviously a positive stat. The least statisticlly deserving entry, Lance Blankenship, came from the BB list. At this point, I think keeping the negative stat lists in play is desirable.

11-08-2012, 12:40 PM	#73
VanillaGorilla All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,371 Blog Entries: 2	Class of 1980: Menke, Lum, Sexton The tensions between the camps in the selection committee reached a tipping point. The Blue Dogs, sick and tired of the pompous cacophony emanating from the Traditionalists and Saberheads, took charge. All three entrants came from the leader boards. ------------------ The Blue Dogs told the leaders of of the Traditionalists and Saberheads to shut up about all of their theoretical nonsense, and pulled support from members of each camp who had grown ashamed of their leadership and strong armed Denis Menke into the Hall. The Blue Dogs flipped off both camps by saying that Menke deserves induction because he had struck out more times than any other eligible candidate, and if he wasn't inducted, no one would be. Denis Menke did strike out 1723 times, 4th on the All Time list, behind Willie Mays in the third position. But Menke was a very good player and is deserving of induction, but the Blue Dogs were making a point to the others by flexing their counter intuitive muscles. Enough voters from the other camps saw through the Blue Dog grandstanding on agreed with selection. Menke played 2002 games at SS, 14th All-Time. He also played an additional 1000+ games at 2B and 3B in a career that started as a 9th over all pick in the 1951 draft. He collected 2580 hits in 2902 games (also 14th) and posted a career slash line of 252/344/382 for a npa OPS+ of 106. He made 8 All Star teams and played in 2 WS, winning with the Giants in 1965. He is the first player from this team to be enshrined, but he won't be the only one. His best offensive season, from npa OPS+ standpoint, was in 1961 when he hit .275 with 27 HRs and scored 103 runs while posting a 133 npa OPS+. Menke illustrates how important eras, or even specific seasons can be in influencing raw stats. In 1968 he had an OPS of .655 which was a npa OPS+ of 107. In 1970 he had an OPS of .739 which was also an npa OPS+ of 107. Black Ink: 6 (0) Gray Ink: 91 (11) HOFm: 85 (10) HOFs: 47 (18) ----------------- Mike Lum enters on the basis of being the highest ranked eligible player on either the VORP or WAR lists. He is the only floor breaker in this class. Mike Lum was a 3rd rd draft pick in 1920. He retired following the 1938 season having played his entire career with the Boston Red Sox. 6 times he hit over .300 and he ended his career with a .299 batting average and 2038 career hits. A .368 OBP and .441 slg% gives him a career npa OPS+ of 120. A 3 time GG winner, Lum made one All Star appearance. He won 2 WS in three tries. In his rookie 1922 season, he contributed a .310 average as he and fellow HOF teammates Benny Kauff and Bret Saberhagen brought the title to Boston. In 1931 Mike Sirotka joined the Lum, Kauf, Saberhagen core as the Red Sox won, again. Black: 12 Gray: 82 HOFm: 52 HOFs: 30 ------------------------ Tom Sexton was also part of the Blue Dog flip off as they argued to the other camps that he deserved entry because now that Menke was in, Sexton had the most strikeouts of any hitter eligible but not in the Hall. While this is true, Sexton was an overlooked entry since he became eligible in 1977, literally. Sexton's retirement was overlooked in 1971. He was on the spread sheet, but since he had been noted as retired, he didn't get consideration. I have back-up mechanisms for screening because there is a human element here. He would have been put into consideration eventually, but he just had not been, yet. Sexton has the numbers to be in the HOF through standard standards. The Blue Dogs recognized this, but still chose to make the argument to the others that his strikeouts were the reason they wanted him in. Sexton was the 7th player taken in the 1948 draft. IRL he only has data from 1884 (something about OOTP loving to develop these 1884 players). He finished his career here with 2747 hits. His 2787 GP at SS are the mos ever. He also has the most walks as a SS, 1624, in the history of the league. He was a teammate of Ken Griffey Jr in 1951 when they brought a WS title to Cincinnati. A 5 time AS, Sexton won 2 GGs at SS as he posted a career slash line of 273/336/333 for a npa OPS+ of 101. Though the Blue Dogs did pull him from the All Time strikeout list, Sexton's HOFm/s numbers are both above the current Hall averages. Black: 24 Gray: 102 HOFm: 180 HOFs: 48 ADD: When I conceived of the model, I debated whether or not to include negative stat leaders (strikeouts, caught stealing for hitters, walks, losses for pitchers) as categories for consideration when going to the leader boards for entries. I decided to use them because the RL leaders in these categories are in the HOF. They are a result of playing a long time. I thought it would be a way of getting people in that slipped through cracks of the method, itself. As it turns out, in the case of Sexton, by using the strikeout list it captured a candidate that slipped through the cracks due to the imperfect human administration (me) of the model. Lum is the floor breaker, but he came from the WAR list, obviously a positive stat. The least statisticlly deserving entry, Lance Blankenship, came from the BB list. At this point, I think keeping the negative stat lists in play is desirable. Last edited by VanillaGorilla; 11-10-2012 at 04:46 PM.