OOTP Developments Forums - View Single Post - apparently Stuff is very important (quisenberry)

ConStar · 08-18-2019, 04:37 PM

First, let me say it's difficult for me to provide large sample sizes of stats, since I play one game a day and correlate to the real calendar, and have done that for all my computer gaming life (started in 1987 with a different game, so I'm on season #32 right now. Been with OOTP since OOTP13).

However, I have been frustrated with the pitcher rating system since day one. Maybe being a pitcher myself once colors my opinion.

So here goes: If you have a guy with high stuff, low movement (even drastically low movement) and low-to-middling control, he still has the chance to be very successful in this game. The "Movement" measurement almost doesn't seem to matter, watching the games play out. It only seems to matter if the Stuff rating is also high, and then it helps keep the HR rate down.

But that's not how real life works. Jamie Moyer, for instance, would have had dismal "Stuff" numbers, above-average Movement and high control, and he pitched seemingly half a century. There are a lot of starters in baseball who could have said the same.

The Dan Quisenberry example is perfect: Q had great success as a closer, because his movement and his control added together made him just as successful (or even more so) than a guy who could throw 96-mph bullets but couldn't spin them or control them.

The problem in OOTP, is if the stuff rating is low, nothing else seems to matter. Velocity in this game might as well not be listed. Just for kicks this year, I created a guy who could throw 101+, but could only throw fastballs. So basically, think Aroldis Chapman before he figured out his slider was a plus pitch. The game has my guy rated with 12 "Stuff" (1-20 scale) and his strikeout count is minimal. Let me be the first to tell you, if you've got a guy hitting 101-105 on the gun, he's going to strike people out. He might give up a ton of HR when he has to groove a 3-0 pitch, but he WILL strike people out and he WILL be effective in short bursts, so long as his control is decent.

In actuality, we need to combine the "Stuff" and "Movement" categories. Replace the empty slot with something like "How to Pitch," "Guile," whatever. Then under the "Velocity" subcategory, add one for "Effect on BABIP" and have those two subcategories simply be informational for us, the player. Because right now, the game artificially inflates "Stuff" by the number of pitches a guy has -- and you can test this. Create a guy, give him five pitches and make them all 15/20 with a potential of 20. Don't touch the "Movement" category at all. In fact, turn it down and watch what happens. "Stuff" is going to stay high -- which is not possible in the real world. If you have a 15/20 slider, you have movement. If you have a 15/20 curveball, you have movement. It's like the "Movement" category only pertains to fastballs -- and if your movement is low there, you can't have a 20/20 fastball yet my league is crawling with guys who do.

08-18-2019, 04:37 PM	#12
ConStar Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 205	First, let me say it's difficult for me to provide large sample sizes of stats, since I play one game a day and correlate to the real calendar, and have done that for all my computer gaming life (started in 1987 with a different game, so I'm on season #32 right now. Been with OOTP since OOTP13). However, I have been frustrated with the pitcher rating system since day one. Maybe being a pitcher myself once colors my opinion. So here goes: If you have a guy with high stuff, low movement (even drastically low movement) and low-to-middling control, he still has the chance to be very successful in this game. The "Movement" measurement almost doesn't seem to matter, watching the games play out. It only seems to matter if the Stuff rating is also high, and then it helps keep the HR rate down. But that's not how real life works. Jamie Moyer, for instance, would have had dismal "Stuff" numbers, above-average Movement and high control, and he pitched seemingly half a century. There are a lot of starters in baseball who could have said the same. The Dan Quisenberry example is perfect: Q had great success as a closer, because his movement and his control added together made him just as successful (or even more so) than a guy who could throw 96-mph bullets but couldn't spin them or control them. The problem in OOTP, is if the stuff rating is low, nothing else seems to matter. Velocity in this game might as well not be listed. Just for kicks this year, I created a guy who could throw 101+, but could only throw fastballs. So basically, think Aroldis Chapman before he figured out his slider was a plus pitch. The game has my guy rated with 12 "Stuff" (1-20 scale) and his strikeout count is minimal. Let me be the first to tell you, if you've got a guy hitting 101-105 on the gun, he's going to strike people out. He might give up a ton of HR when he has to groove a 3-0 pitch, but he WILL strike people out and he WILL be effective in short bursts, so long as his control is decent. In actuality, we need to combine the "Stuff" and "Movement" categories. Replace the empty slot with something like "How to Pitch," "Guile," whatever. Then under the "Velocity" subcategory, add one for "Effect on BABIP" and have those two subcategories simply be informational for us, the player. Because right now, the game artificially inflates "Stuff" by the number of pitches a guy has -- and you can test this. Create a guy, give him five pitches and make them all 15/20 with a potential of 20. Don't touch the "Movement" category at all. In fact, turn it down and watch what happens. "Stuff" is going to stay high -- which is not possible in the real world. If you have a 15/20 slider, you have movement. If you have a 15/20 curveball, you have movement. It's like the "Movement" category only pertains to fastballs -- and if your movement is low there, you can't have a 20/20 fastball yet my league is crawling with guys who do.