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VanillaGorilla · 01-31-2013, 12:50 PM

I had about a dozen hitters and a dozen pitchers that were inducted by the software to screen as First Balloters. None of them met the First Ballot Standard...that fact solidifies my opinion that the method used to choose the initial inductees is a sound one.

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Fred Carroll was a computer selection for having picked up 3003 hits in his career, 3rd most All-Time. With the induction of Carroll, the top 3 career hit leaders are in the HOF (Reyes, Sheffield). He joins the Hall on the basis of his HOFs number to be better than the average of the inaugural class.

Carroll, like the other 2 inductees of this class, played his RL baseball in the 1800s. Carroll has a strong record of stats from his playing days, so that the development engine saw fit to have him put up a HOF career. Carroll is a player I have used before and have hoped for great things, but this is the first time I have seen him have such a good career for so long.

He was selected by the Phillies as the 24th overall pick in the inaugural draft. He was labeled the #7 prospect on draft day. On Opening Day he was labeled #6.

During his career that lasted through the 1993 season, Carroll batted .291 while picking up his 3000+ hits. That he did this as a catcher, is even more amazing. And he is all over the catcher leaderboard. He is first in G and IP at the position. No one, active or retired, is within 400 GP or 4000 IP of his respective totals of 2311 and 20,030.

A 7 time All Star, Carroll hit 215 HRs, drove in 1479 (12th), and scored 1448 (8th).

His best year came in 1976 with the Phillies. He hit a career high 21 HRs and drove in 101 while slashing 305/387/470 for a npa OPS+ of 146.

For his career he slashed 291/379/427 for a npa OPS+ of 128 while never playing in a hitter friendly home ball park (The Vet, 3 River, The Murph, Astrodome, Olympic Stadium, and Busch).

He won a batting title in 1986, for the Pirates, batting .322 while getting on base at a .413 clip and slugging .493. He hit 13 HRs in 485 ABs that season.

Carroll appeared in 3 post seasons and 2 WS, but never won a championship.

Black Ink: 4
Gray Ink: 146
HOFm: 197.5
HOFs: 66

Gorilla Composite: 3.8

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Charlie Bennett is another guy that has given me nightmares when I play. If I sign him long term, he goes into the tank. If I trade him, he shines for 10 years. Well, I never had him on my team, this time around, and he becomes the second 19th Century catcher to join the Hall, this year. Go figure.

Bennett was taken second overall by the Rockies in 1992. He played all but his final (2007) season in Denver. Sure, this contributed to his offensive output...he hit 50+ HRs in three consecutive seasons from 1995-1997. But Denver didn't help him win 5 GGs at C, attain the highest ZF at C in league history, or steal 343 career bases.

From 1993 to 2001, Bennett hit 327 of his career 351 HRs. The injuries accumulated earlier in his career that he fought through had taken their toll, and he became a player that was shuttled from AAA (where he was an All Star) to the Majors as injuries dictated.

He appeared in 3 ML ASGs, and in 2000 brought a WS title to Denver as he scored 141 runs and drove in 123 while hitting 36 HRs, in the regular season. In the post season run, he hit 5 HRs in 41 AB over 14 games.

His 57 HRs in 1996 are the most in a season for a catcher. His 160 RBI in 1995 are also the most ever by a catcher in a season.

For his career Bennett slashed 284/383/515 for a npa OPS+ of 139.

Like Carroll, Bennett gets in by virtue of his HOFs number being above the Hall average.

ADD: Bennett becomes the first player inducted not selected by the software.

Black Ink: 18
Gray Ink: 116
HOFm: 209.5
HOFs: 59

Gorilla Composite: 4.1

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"Who?" O'Niel? Hugh O'Niel. Yeah, I didn't know him either. Considering his ML career consisted of only 5 games in 1875, I am not sweating my lack of knowledge, on this one.

What Hugh O'Niel had in this universe, was off the charts Stuff and Control ratings that he maintained from the time he was drafted in 1979 until he retired in 1996 as the all time leader in saves with 513.

No relief specialist was inducted in the previous Hall, as the dynamics there worked severely against them. So many pitchers stayed healthy and put up good career numbers that it was very difficult for one to get in. In that league, 300 wins was not a ticket to the shrine.

What I do with pitchers, since the HOFs metric is not created to measure relievers, is I add 1 HOFs point for each 10 career saves for induction purposes. Once the pitcher is inducted, those points are removed and the calculations for the Hall on based on the HOFs number without the added bonus for career saves. This keeps the composite number in a comparable parallel to the RL HOF data while making entry for relief specialists possible without subjectively adding them. Even with this bonus, it will take a super freak occurrence for a RP to get in on the First Ballot standard, so the frequency of RP's entering should be rare, just as it is in RL.

O'Neil was dominant. Not only is he the career saves leader (he saved 30+ games 10 times, 40+3 times), he is the career leader in W/9 (0.82), WHIP (0.92), and opp OBP (.247). These numbers come from 1123 IP in 1049 appearances, all in relief.

A 4 time All Star, he was the league save leader 3 times. In 9 post seson games, he notched 6 saves and posted a 0.93 ERA, striking out 10 and walking 1. However, he never won a title.

His OOTP ERA of 3.17 results in a npa ERA+ of 150. For his career, he struck out 1405 while walking 102.

The Yankees picked him with the 147th pick. 130 players joined the draft that year. So, O'niel goes from being Mr. Irrelevant Plus 17 (due to players that hadn't signed in the previous year) to the HOF.

Hugh O'Neil...the Mother of All Sleepers.

Black Ink: 19
Gray Ink: 51
HOFm: 138.3
HOFs: 24

Gorilla Composite: 2.0

01-31-2013, 12:50 PM	#6
VanillaGorilla All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 1,371 Blog Entries: 2	Class of 2009 (1937): Carroll, Bennett, O'Neil I had about a dozen hitters and a dozen pitchers that were inducted by the software to screen as First Balloters. None of them met the First Ballot Standard...that fact solidifies my opinion that the method used to choose the initial inductees is a sound one. ------------------------------------ Fred Carroll was a computer selection for having picked up 3003 hits in his career, 3rd most All-Time. With the induction of Carroll, the top 3 career hit leaders are in the HOF (Reyes, Sheffield). He joins the Hall on the basis of his HOFs number to be better than the average of the inaugural class. Carroll, like the other 2 inductees of this class, played his RL baseball in the 1800s. Carroll has a strong record of stats from his playing days, so that the development engine saw fit to have him put up a HOF career. Carroll is a player I have used before and have hoped for great things, but this is the first time I have seen him have such a good career for so long. He was selected by the Phillies as the 24th overall pick in the inaugural draft. He was labeled the #7 prospect on draft day. On Opening Day he was labeled #6. During his career that lasted through the 1993 season, Carroll batted .291 while picking up his 3000+ hits. That he did this as a catcher, is even more amazing. And he is all over the catcher leaderboard. He is first in G and IP at the position. No one, active or retired, is within 400 GP or 4000 IP of his respective totals of 2311 and 20,030. A 7 time All Star, Carroll hit 215 HRs, drove in 1479 (12th), and scored 1448 (8th). His best year came in 1976 with the Phillies. He hit a career high 21 HRs and drove in 101 while slashing 305/387/470 for a npa OPS+ of 146. For his career he slashed 291/379/427 for a npa OPS+ of 128 while never playing in a hitter friendly home ball park (The Vet, 3 River, The Murph, Astrodome, Olympic Stadium, and Busch). He won a batting title in 1986, for the Pirates, batting .322 while getting on base at a .413 clip and slugging .493. He hit 13 HRs in 485 ABs that season. Carroll appeared in 3 post seasons and 2 WS, but never won a championship. Black Ink: 4 Gray Ink: 146 HOFm: 197.5 HOFs: 66 Gorilla Composite: 3.8 -------------------------------- Charlie Bennett is another guy that has given me nightmares when I play. If I sign him long term, he goes into the tank. If I trade him, he shines for 10 years. Well, I never had him on my team, this time around, and he becomes the second 19th Century catcher to join the Hall, this year. Go figure. Bennett was taken second overall by the Rockies in 1992. He played all but his final (2007) season in Denver. Sure, this contributed to his offensive output...he hit 50+ HRs in three consecutive seasons from 1995-1997. But Denver didn't help him win 5 GGs at C, attain the highest ZF at C in league history, or steal 343 career bases. From 1993 to 2001, Bennett hit 327 of his career 351 HRs. The injuries accumulated earlier in his career that he fought through had taken their toll, and he became a player that was shuttled from AAA (where he was an All Star) to the Majors as injuries dictated. He appeared in 3 ML ASGs, and in 2000 brought a WS title to Denver as he scored 141 runs and drove in 123 while hitting 36 HRs, in the regular season. In the post season run, he hit 5 HRs in 41 AB over 14 games. His 57 HRs in 1996 are the most in a season for a catcher. His 160 RBI in 1995 are also the most ever by a catcher in a season. For his career Bennett slashed 284/383/515 for a npa OPS+ of 139. Like Carroll, Bennett gets in by virtue of his HOFs number being above the Hall average. ADD: Bennett becomes the first player inducted not selected by the software. Black Ink: 18 Gray Ink: 116 HOFm: 209.5 HOFs: 59 Gorilla Composite: 4.1 ---------------- "Who?" O'Niel? Hugh O'Niel. Yeah, I didn't know him either. Considering his ML career consisted of only 5 games in 1875, I am not sweating my lack of knowledge, on this one. What Hugh O'Niel had in this universe, was off the charts Stuff and Control ratings that he maintained from the time he was drafted in 1979 until he retired in 1996 as the all time leader in saves with 513. No relief specialist was inducted in the previous Hall, as the dynamics there worked severely against them. So many pitchers stayed healthy and put up good career numbers that it was very difficult for one to get in. In that league, 300 wins was not a ticket to the shrine. What I do with pitchers, since the HOFs metric is not created to measure relievers, is I add 1 HOFs point for each 10 career saves for induction purposes. Once the pitcher is inducted, those points are removed and the calculations for the Hall on based on the HOFs number without the added bonus for career saves. This keeps the composite number in a comparable parallel to the RL HOF data while making entry for relief specialists possible without subjectively adding them. Even with this bonus, it will take a super freak occurrence for a RP to get in on the First Ballot standard, so the frequency of RP's entering should be rare, just as it is in RL. O'Neil was dominant. Not only is he the career saves leader (he saved 30+ games 10 times, 40+3 times), he is the career leader in W/9 (0.82), WHIP (0.92), and opp OBP (.247). These numbers come from 1123 IP in 1049 appearances, all in relief. A 4 time All Star, he was the league save leader 3 times. In 9 post seson games, he notched 6 saves and posted a 0.93 ERA, striking out 10 and walking 1. However, he never won a title. His OOTP ERA of 3.17 results in a npa ERA+ of 150. For his career, he struck out 1405 while walking 102. The Yankees picked him with the 147th pick. 130 players joined the draft that year. So, O'niel goes from being Mr. Irrelevant Plus 17 (due to players that hadn't signed in the previous year) to the HOF. Hugh O'Neil...the Mother of All Sleepers. Black Ink: 19 Gray Ink: 51 HOFm: 138.3 HOFs: 24 Gorilla Composite: 2.0 Last edited by VanillaGorilla; 01-31-2013 at 12:53 PM.