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sharpmath · 07-22-2004, 10:37 PM

That's basically what I do as it is, although I don't tally points, I just have a look at the teams, see how much they may have improved, like if one team wins 15 more games, and the team that wins a World Series 2 years in a row wins the same amount of games, the well improved team's manager usually gets the job.

I also hire/fire managers in the same way, looking at previous records, current records, maybe inventing a story or two. Makes it fun! Would you like an example... no? Well too bad! In 1917, the Chicago White Sox were the most dominant team in baseball, and infact had claimed that mantle from the Chicago Cubs. Baseball in 1900's was Chicago-centric for sure: from 1906 to 1923, a team from Chi-town was in the World Series 14 times, and won it 11 times.

The White Sox began their amazing dynasty in 1908, the 3rd year Nixey Callahan was in charge, the 3rd year of Ty Cobb's career and the last year that Roy Patterson and Ed Reulbach pitched together on the club.

They took the 1908 World Seires over Ned Hanlon's Superbas. In 1911 they beat their crosstown rival Cubs, who were in the middle of 5 trips in a row to the World Series, of which they won 4. In 1914, it was George Stallings New York Giants who went down, 1916 again the Brooklyn club, now called the Dodgers and managed by John McGraw. Next was Connie Mack's Phillies in 1917, then 1919 and 1920 saw them beat Stalling's Giants again and then the Cincinnati Reds, who once had both Joe Jackson AND Babe Ruth on the club, but traded Ruth away and then Jackson.

So 7 World Series trips, and 7 wins for the White Sox up to 1920, amazingly impressive. Ed Reulbach was a huge part of those teams, winning 9 Pitcher of the Year honors up until 1923, and finishing his career with an amazing 446 wins.

Infact his only rival for awards and accolades was his team mate Ty Cobb. Cobb won 5 Batter of the Year Awards in a row, a record only surpassed by Babe Ruth, who as of 1928 has won 10 in a row. Cobb would eventually end up with 4300 gits and a .352 average to go with it. He would also play his final 2 years in Detroit. And that long, rambling post takes me to my point of the story.

What I used to do was go to baseball-reference and find out the managers who started managing in that year, so I would write down their start and end years. But I found I would tend to stop using the managers that only had a year or two left, so I started just wrtiting down the start date, and only putting in the end date during the year that they were leaving.

This lead to some amazing seasons from managers on their way out. And Nixey Callahan retired in 1917 after two World Series titles in a row. His replacement was Wilbert Robinson, who had a very unsucessful time in 7 previous seasons with the Giants, Phillies and Pirates.

Robinson excelled with the White Sox, winning the 1919 and 1920 World Series, but then Ty Cobb came up for his first managerial position, and miraculously, Wilbert Robinson was fired, and Cobb took over as manager.

With Cobb, the Sox finished 2nd the first two years, then finally made it to the World Series in 1923, but lost their first series to the Pittsburgh Pirates, who were playing in their first World Series since 1907, and would finish dead last the next year. After that, the White Sox finished 6th, dead last, and 5th under Cobb's reign.

Then at the end of 1926, amidst rumors of Cobb being forced out as manager, he announce he was 'stepping-down' as White Sox skipper. And the next day.. Wilbert Robinson, who had gone on to 5 very bad seasons with the Dodgers and Cubs, as the new man in charge.

So the start of 1927 rolls around and Cobb is quickly traded to the Detroit Tigers, despite hitting .323/.386/.422. What does Cobb do with the Tigers? Hits .383/.428/.513 and wins his first Batter of the Year Award since 1920, his 10th overall.

So, what's my point? Well. There is some relevance to the topic, if you look WAY at the top. Otherwise, I was just in a little story telling mood. Which by the way would not be possible for me at all, if it weren't for catobase!

Thanks jcato!!!!

[Sorry to all who read this, hoping for some type of coherent point]

07-22-2004, 10:37 PM	#10
sharpmath Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 69	That's basically what I do as it is, although I don't tally points, I just have a look at the teams, see how much they may have improved, like if one team wins 15 more games, and the team that wins a World Series 2 years in a row wins the same amount of games, the well improved team's manager usually gets the job. I also hire/fire managers in the same way, looking at previous records, current records, maybe inventing a story or two. Makes it fun! Would you like an example... no? Well too bad! In 1917, the Chicago White Sox were the most dominant team in baseball, and infact had claimed that mantle from the Chicago Cubs. Baseball in 1900's was Chicago-centric for sure: from 1906 to 1923, a team from Chi-town was in the World Series 14 times, and won it 11 times. The White Sox began their amazing dynasty in 1908, the 3rd year Nixey Callahan was in charge, the 3rd year of Ty Cobb's career and the last year that Roy Patterson and Ed Reulbach pitched together on the club. They took the 1908 World Seires over Ned Hanlon's Superbas. In 1911 they beat their crosstown rival Cubs, who were in the middle of 5 trips in a row to the World Series, of which they won 4. In 1914, it was George Stallings New York Giants who went down, 1916 again the Brooklyn club, now called the Dodgers and managed by John McGraw. Next was Connie Mack's Phillies in 1917, then 1919 and 1920 saw them beat Stalling's Giants again and then the Cincinnati Reds, who once had both Joe Jackson AND Babe Ruth on the club, but traded Ruth away and then Jackson. So 7 World Series trips, and 7 wins for the White Sox up to 1920, amazingly impressive. Ed Reulbach was a huge part of those teams, winning 9 Pitcher of the Year honors up until 1923, and finishing his career with an amazing 446 wins. Infact his only rival for awards and accolades was his team mate Ty Cobb. Cobb won 5 Batter of the Year Awards in a row, a record only surpassed by Babe Ruth, who as of 1928 has won 10 in a row. Cobb would eventually end up with 4300 gits and a .352 average to go with it. He would also play his final 2 years in Detroit. And that long, rambling post takes me to my point of the story. What I used to do was go to baseball-reference and find out the managers who started managing in that year, so I would write down their start and end years. But I found I would tend to stop using the managers that only had a year or two left, so I started just wrtiting down the start date, and only putting in the end date during the year that they were leaving. This lead to some amazing seasons from managers on their way out. And Nixey Callahan retired in 1917 after two World Series titles in a row. His replacement was Wilbert Robinson, who had a very unsucessful time in 7 previous seasons with the Giants, Phillies and Pirates. Robinson excelled with the White Sox, winning the 1919 and 1920 World Series, but then Ty Cobb came up for his first managerial position, and miraculously, Wilbert Robinson was fired, and Cobb took over as manager. With Cobb, the Sox finished 2nd the first two years, then finally made it to the World Series in 1923, but lost their first series to the Pittsburgh Pirates, who were playing in their first World Series since 1907, and would finish dead last the next year. After that, the White Sox finished 6th, dead last, and 5th under Cobb's reign. Then at the end of 1926, amidst rumors of Cobb being forced out as manager, he announce he was 'stepping-down' as White Sox skipper. And the next day.. Wilbert Robinson, who had gone on to 5 very bad seasons with the Dodgers and Cubs, as the new man in charge. So the start of 1927 rolls around and Cobb is quickly traded to the Detroit Tigers, despite hitting .323/.386/.422. What does Cobb do with the Tigers? Hits .383/.428/.513 and wins his first Batter of the Year Award since 1920, his 10th overall. So, what's my point? Well. There is some relevance to the topic, if you look WAY at the top. Otherwise, I was just in a little story telling mood. Which by the way would not be possible for me at all, if it weren't for catobase! Thanks jcato!!!! [Sorry to all who read this, hoping for some type of coherent point] __________________ this night has opened my eyes and I will never be the same. I'm not happy and I'm not sad.