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jdw · 07-18-2004, 06:58 PM

Matt from TN wrote:

> Kinda cool to see that the recent
> competition betw. the Yanks and Dodgers
> also include the 2 winningest managers
> in history... I knew Sweney was with the
> Yanks in their early heyday and is beloved
> in NY, but I didn't realize that he and
> Greiner were 1-2... incredible... Since
> Sweney came to Brooklyn, he has taken
> the team to 4 WS and all have been against
> the Yanks, wow.

Very cool.

Probably time to start thing about both of them retiring. Sweney has been managing since 1904. Let's say he was 30 at the time (not unreasonable), it would make him 67 this year. Greiner started in 1911, which would also put him over 60.

I know Mack managed forever, but he also owned the team and the last few years others essentially managed for him. I know others have managed into the 70s as well. But...

MLB has had only two managers who had 30+ seasons at the helm:

53 - Connie Mack (1894-1950)
33 - John McGraw (1899-1932)
29 - Bucky Harris (1924-1956)
26 - Gene Mauch (1960-1987)
26 - Sparky Anderson (1970-1995)
25 - Bill McKechnie (1915-1946)
25 - Casey Stengel (1934-1965)
25 - Tony LaRussa (1979-2003)
24 - Joe McCarthy (1926-1950)
24 - Leo Durocher (1939-1973)
23 - Harry Wright (1871-1893)
23 - Walter Alston (1954-1976)
22 - Bobby Cox (1978-2003)
22 - Joe Torre (1977-2003)
21 - Cap Anson (1875-1898)
21 - Dick Williams (1967-1988)
21 - Jimmie Dykes (1934-1961)
21 - Tom Lasorda (1976-1996)
20 - Clark Griffith (1901-1920)
20 - Ralph Houk (1961-1984)

Both were "special circumstances. Mack owned the club, and no one seemed to have the 'nads to tell him to stop managing. McGraw had a cut of the team if I recall correctly. Given both Sweney and Greiner have moved clubs, it's pretty clear they don't have a cut.

Sweney just finished his 35th, while Greiner ran past his 27th.

Seems about the right time for Sweeny to go first - the WS over the Yanks that he always wanted as "payback" against his former team, then getting back there for a second season (though swept). He probably should go after 1941 - perhaps even announce his pending retirement during the season at some point if there's a "need" to inspire the team (if they're in a tight race, or underperfoming).

Greiner... probably after 1944 depending how hard hit that Yanks get. That would take him up to 31 seasons as a manager. He'd want to stick around through his 30th season, and the team still has a talent base right now that he "loves". But he probably should be cleared off before new owners take over.

John

07-18-2004, 06:58 PM	#1705
jdw All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,161	Matt from TN wrote: > Kinda cool to see that the recent > competition betw. the Yanks and Dodgers > also include the 2 winningest managers > in history... I knew Sweney was with the > Yanks in their early heyday and is beloved > in NY, but I didn't realize that he and > Greiner were 1-2... incredible... Since > Sweney came to Brooklyn, he has taken > the team to 4 WS and all have been against > the Yanks, wow. Very cool. Probably time to start thing about both of them retiring. Sweney has been managing since 1904. Let's say he was 30 at the time (not unreasonable), it would make him 67 this year. Greiner started in 1911, which would also put him over 60. I know Mack managed forever, but he also owned the team and the last few years others essentially managed for him. I know others have managed into the 70s as well. But... MLB has had only two managers who had 30+ seasons at the helm: 53 - Connie Mack (1894-1950) 33 - John McGraw (1899-1932) 29 - Bucky Harris (1924-1956) 26 - Gene Mauch (1960-1987) 26 - Sparky Anderson (1970-1995) 25 - Bill McKechnie (1915-1946) 25 - Casey Stengel (1934-1965) 25 - Tony LaRussa (1979-2003) 24 - Joe McCarthy (1926-1950) 24 - Leo Durocher (1939-1973) 23 - Harry Wright (1871-1893) 23 - Walter Alston (1954-1976) 22 - Bobby Cox (1978-2003) 22 - Joe Torre (1977-2003) 21 - Cap Anson (1875-1898) 21 - Dick Williams (1967-1988) 21 - Jimmie Dykes (1934-1961) 21 - Tom Lasorda (1976-1996) 20 - Clark Griffith (1901-1920) 20 - Ralph Houk (1961-1984) Both were "special circumstances. Mack owned the club, and no one seemed to have the 'nads to tell him to stop managing. McGraw had a cut of the team if I recall correctly. Given both Sweney and Greiner have moved clubs, it's pretty clear they don't have a cut. Sweney just finished his 35th, while Greiner ran past his 27th. Seems about the right time for Sweeny to go first - the WS over the Yanks that he always wanted as "payback" against his former team, then getting back there for a second season (though swept). He probably should go after 1941 - perhaps even announce his pending retirement during the season at some point if there's a "need" to inspire the team (if they're in a tight race, or underperfoming). Greiner... probably after 1944 depending how hard hit that Yanks get. That would take him up to 31 seasons as a manager. He'd want to stick around through his 30th season, and the team still has a talent base right now that he "loves". But he probably should be cleared off before new owners take over. John Last edited by jdw; 07-18-2004 at 07:31 PM.