Quote:
Originally Posted by dsvitak
I agree with everything you said..but would add Jim Edmonds is vastly more qualified than Hernandez. Prove me wrong.
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Hmmm, I wouldn't necessarily say that's an either/or debate, since the argument for Keith is that you shouldn't need to hit 393 Home Runs (as Edmonds did) to reach the Hall, and that of the "he's in because of his glove" candidates, Keith not only out-hits Mazeroski (and Little O), but he actually was the better glove man, leading all 1st basemen ever in certain defensive stats.
But, sure, let's do Keith v. Jim. Remember, Edmonds played until age 40, whereas Keith was finished at 36 (the Mets thought Keith was finished at 35, which is why that final year was in Cleveland), so Jim should have the edge in the counting stats.
However, Keith actually has over 200 more hits, 2182 v. 1949.
Edmonds leads in 2B, 437 to 426…but Keith smokes him on triples, 60 to 25. (Edmonds of course leads in dingers, 393 to 162)
Even though Edmonds was a "flychaser" and Keith played 1B, Keith was by far the better base-stealer, in totals and by percentage. (Keith 98/63; Edmonds 67/50)
Keith leads in BA (.296 v. .284) and OBA (.384 v .376; Keith not only drew more walks than Edmonds did, but he walked more than he struck out; Edmonds was 10/17 in his W/K ratio). Those extra 231 bombs give Jim the edge in SLG and OPS, but since Keith did his hitting in the 1970s and 1980s, whereas Jim prospered in the Days of Roids and Selig, if you normalize for OPS+, it's nearly a tie. (Edmonds 132, Keith 128).
Because they're carrying their candidacies with their gloves, they both fall short of the advanced hitting metrics for the Hall (Grey Ink, HoF standards/monitor, JAWS), but Keith comes closer to the positional norms.
Accolades?
Edmonds was a 4-Time All-Star…but Keith made 5 ASGs.
Edmonds won 8 Gold Gloves. Keith won 11.
Edmonds won a Silver Slugger (2004). That's nice. Keith won two. (1980, 1984)
Edmonds got MVP votes in 6 different seasons, Keith got votes in 8 seasons. Edmonds placed as high as 4th, in 2000. Keith also placed 4th (in 1986)…and he placed 2nd in 1984…and of course he won it in 1979.
Keith led the league in BA (1979), 2B (1979), OBP (1980), walks (1986), intentional walks (1982) and twice in runs (1979, 1980).
Edmonds led the league in…no batting categories, ever.
Edmonds won a World Series in 2006. ($#$@%#@!!!). But, of course, Keith did that, twice. And I don't think I'm going too far out an limb in saying that Keith was far more important to his team in both 1982 and 1986 than Edmonds was to the '06 Lucky Bastards, er, Cardinals.
Edmonds placed
9th in WAR among the 2006 Cards. Behind Albert, Rolen, Carpenter, Chris Duncan (!), Eckstein (!), Jeff Suppan, Waino (SWING THE DAMN BAT, Beltran!!! Ahem) and Scott Spiezio.
Keith was 4th on the 1982 Cards (behind Lonnie Smith [!!!], One Tough Dominican, and Ozzie) and
led the 1986 Mets. Who, you'll recall, won 108 games in the regular season, rather than going
83-78, only posting the 5th-best record in the NL, and "winning" their joke of a division despite going 3-7 in their final 10 games. Not that I'm bitter or anything…
So, yeah, perhaps you're really impressed by that 231-HR gap. (Not that 393 career homers is anything huge, IMO.)
But "vastly more qualified"? Vastly
not, I'd say. JMO.