[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by thehef

The kicker absolutely deserves blame, but it's a different kind of blame. But part of the core of sports is that often players try hard and still fail. There's no real comparison of Moore's contribution to the loss and the kicker's. Piniero was trying to win the game and did nothing selfish and intentional to contribute to his team's loss. The same cannot be said of Moore.

Again, I have no qualms w/the flag. But I think it is too harsh to completely color what Moore did as "intentional". As if he didn't care about a penalty. He didn't think about the penalty. it was every bit as spontaneous as Brittney Chastain ripping off her jersey in front of 100000 plus. He just should have known better.

I suppose I'd like to see a middle ground here. Personally, I like to see honest & spontaneous displays of joy, celebrating with teammates and so forth. I do not, however, like to see all the "look at me, I'm a badass" stuff. The angry, "show me respect" poses that dominate the NBA and have also infested the NFL are particularly odious, IMO. I'm neither 100% for or against penalties for this behavior, but as I said: Middle ground. I'd prefer to see an evolution to where some players show that enthusiasm & joy that I mentioned, but also approach it from the perspective of "ya, I expected to do that because I've done it before, and I plan to do it again, so I'm going to quickly celebrate by hugging & high-fiving my teammates and maybe acknowledge the crowd, and then get back to work." (I fully realize that there are many who LOVE the choreographed stuff, and who also love the angry "I'm a badass stuff." Not everyone see it as classless sign of the times, like I do... And some of the choreographed stuff I actually like, I'll admit... most happy & silly celebrations that go along with smiles, rather than angry poses, are cool by me.)

As long as the player isn't trying to downgrade the other team w/their celebrating I could care less. Yeah I prefer Barry Sanders tossing the ball to the ref. But I try to distance what I like & dislike from what is right & wrong. And how people celebrate within the the guidelines of common decency isn't a hill I feel worth dying on. Why make an issue out of what isn't an issue?

As for the helmet rule itself, I'll plagiarize & edit what you wrote in the "who's the HR record-holder" thread:

Nah. I think there is more than one issue here. Why is taking your helmet off during a dead ball period evil? It affects NOTHING. Flagging it makes a problem where there isn't one. There's no competitive advantage. There is no delay to the game. Its an appeasement to old farts who like to dictate the benign behavior of other people. Karen gonna Karen.

Moore should not be excused because one disagrees with the rule (and I'm not saying you are making that claim). Moore knew the rule, selfishly broke it, and cost his team.

Glad you said that, cause I think he should have been flagged. It is in the rules, it should be enforced. Everyone knew that from the get go. It was stupid on his part.

I don't think that the low bar set by some owners should be an excuse for promoting classless on-the-field behavior by players. Although I realize that some don't see the angry & selfish stuff as being classless. As with many things, YMMV

You're right. I don't see it as classless. I see it as individuals being themselves. Sanders giving the ball to the ref or Cam giving the ball to a kid in the stands are just different choices. Heisman poses, doing the funky chicken, grabbing popcorn, throwing the ball into the stands, spiking the ball are all benign choices.