Quote:
Originally Posted by luckymann
To the OP:
You make some valid points. I agree wholeheartedly the management side of OOTP needs an overhaul, not to make the game harder but to make it more realistic in this regard.
Problem is, you have couched these valid points in such an overbearingly didactic tone implying you know so much more than everyone else - including one of the guys who created the game - that they almost feel incidental. It makes them seem deliberately antagonistic rather than constructive. Which is a shame, because the latter is what I think you were shooting for.
Have a look at your own posts from THIS 2020 thread and note the difference in how you have put forth your arguments.
I also believe there are many on here who do simply push back on any OOTP criticism as if it is a personal attack. I don't think this helps matters any. But each to their own is my overriding philosophy.
FWIW, I believe there should be no OOTP release next year, or if so make it a v23.5 like they apparently did with v6. This would then allow the versions to line up with the calendar year, which the marketing team would like (although, of course, that would then lock you in to this strategy moving forward). In the meantime, I'd love to see the various issues being caused by v23's ultimately positive engine overhaul (including accurate NeL stats) all sorted out for this interim release and then make the AI management improvements the big selling point for 24.
Graphics have been done. Unis etc now up to code. The engine as well, once these issues get fixed. Pretty much the only aspect that hasn't been shown any love of late apart from some fairly inane cosmetic additions is how the AI manages rosters, trading etc, and how the human player is able to interact with those involved in the sim itself - players, coaches, GMs / owners, other clubs and the league commission.
I don't subscribe to the view that this latter element needs to be quite so in-depth as what has been shown in this thread from FM. I think with so many statistical permutations already at play in OOTP, this might end up being a bridge too far. But I certainly feel there is plenty of scope for improvement all the same so that dealing with these other participants is a more organic and fruitful process than at present. It's a big ask, I know, but I really believe it would take OOTP to the next level for wider appreciation as the OP suggests. |
Good post. I have said countless times the last several weeks OOTP is still worth the money and it's still an enjoyable experience. My points might be harsh but I did still endorse OOTP.
Maybe it's harsh and overbearing because I don't agree with calling the FM comparisons silly. There is also 3 thoughts that run throughout the forum even from devs.
1. OOTPd staff is micro and FM staff huge
2. Football more popular
3. Si/FM sells more makes more money to make the game better
My original point was SI chooses the popular path even if it goes against die hard football fans. They grow their product. Their decisions through the years grow the product.
"ootpd" is too small. Baseball doesn't have the appeal of football. Ootpb doesn't sell as much. Give ootpd SI money and ootpb would be great.
I don't think they are valid defenses. 1st it's not football vs baseball. FM is mostly premiere league fans in the UK. That is #1 buyers and watchers of the game. 90% of all the content creators are British. Except Zealand.
Ootpb and ootpd is small. But they choose the least popular path they don't choose to make a popular game but a game for hardcore baseball fans. They don't choose the popular path. It's a self imposed restriction. If you want to be as big as SI then start picking the popular path even if it ruffles feathers.
So it's kind of bs too say SI/FM are bigger. Don't give excuses just tell the truth.
Maybe the truth is ootpd don't want to be as big as SI/FM. That they want to cater to hardcore audience and the larger popular crowd. Maybe they want to keep ootp small and not be a huge popular success.
To me that is what the truth sounds like. If it is the truth say it. We all we accept it and move on.
But the constant if we were as big as SI ootpb would be just as good doesn't ring true to my ear. All the money and staff won't change the direction of ootpb catering to the hardcore niche fan and the not popular crowd.
Ootpb/ootpd/OOTP community/white knights/fanboys/forum users/regular people just keep IT REAL.
You don't need to defend the game just be truthful. Wear your hardcore niche appeal like a badge of honor. Just be honest.
Say our game is small and we want it that way. We are a small niche product and we want to stay small.
See the truth I can accept. The if ootpd was as big as SI then the games would be equal doesn't ring truthful for me. Cause they have entirely different philosophy on who to make and sell a game too.