OOTP Developments Forums - View Single Post

Hoiles · 04-28-2022, 06:12 PM

Thanks for the input, Lansdowne. I'll probably be messing around with these leagues over the year, so I'll definitely be interested in a thread in the historical sims forum. I think many of the issues are due to the lack of quality in available data for these leagues, improvements to the dataset such as the ones from Seamheads should help out.

In a similar way, I earlier did a 1920-1950 sim with the default annual 3-year recalcs and color barrier off. I found that the integrated NeL hitters generally had reasonable stats, but instead (as Sprague) pointed out, the pitchers overly dominated. They filled out almost all the "Top 20 pitcher" rankings every year, as well as the Cy Youngs.

As evidence, the 1920-1950 awards were won by integrated NeL players:
AL MVP's: 3 out of 31 times
AL Cy Youngs: 27 out of 31
NL MVP's: 12 out of 31 (not counting 3 from Larry Doby)
NL Cy Youngs: 22 out of 31

Without knowing about the under-the-hood stuff in the import and sim engine, I think it could be related to some sort of disconnect on how AL/NL players are imported from the Major League database, and how NeL players from the Minor League database (I see the NeLs no longer get a "level nerf" in the CSV files).

I have some guesses off the top of my head for these differences:
- The adjust/weaken settings don't work the same way (which would be an issue as players often had stats from a limited amount of games each year)
- The NeL player stats aren't being compared and adjusted to the appropriate NeL totals, in the same way as they are for the AL/NL
- The batter/pitcher imbalances may have something to do with how the integrated player stats affect autocalcs/league modifiers
- For pitchers, perhaps the "three true outcomes" DIPS model doesn't apply to NeL stats, either due to lack of data quality for detailed stats such as BB/K/HR allowed, or perhaps the DIPS model didn't actually apply in these leagues?

04-28-2022, 06:12 PM	#8
Hoiles All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 574	Thanks for the input, Lansdowne. I'll probably be messing around with these leagues over the year, so I'll definitely be interested in a thread in the historical sims forum. I think many of the issues are due to the lack of quality in available data for these leagues, improvements to the dataset such as the ones from Seamheads should help out. In a similar way, I earlier did a 1920-1950 sim with the default annual 3-year recalcs and color barrier off. I found that the integrated NeL hitters generally had reasonable stats, but instead (as Sprague) pointed out, the pitchers overly dominated. They filled out almost all the "Top 20 pitcher" rankings every year, as well as the Cy Youngs. As evidence, the 1920-1950 awards were won by integrated NeL players: AL MVP's: 3 out of 31 times AL Cy Youngs: 27 out of 31 NL MVP's: 12 out of 31 (not counting 3 from Larry Doby) NL Cy Youngs: 22 out of 31 Without knowing about the under-the-hood stuff in the import and sim engine, I think it could be related to some sort of disconnect on how AL/NL players are imported from the Major League database, and how NeL players from the Minor League database (I see the NeLs no longer get a "level nerf" in the CSV files). I have some guesses off the top of my head for these differences: - The adjust/weaken settings don't work the same way (which would be an issue as players often had stats from a limited amount of games each year) - The NeL player stats aren't being compared and adjusted to the appropriate NeL totals, in the same way as they are for the AL/NL - The batter/pitcher imbalances may have something to do with how the integrated player stats affect autocalcs/league modifiers - For pitchers, perhaps the "three true outcomes" DIPS model doesn't apply to NeL stats, either due to lack of data quality for detailed stats such as BB/K/HR allowed, or perhaps the DIPS model didn't actually apply in these leagues?