Quote:
Originally Posted by tentin_quarantino
You wouldn't have had to clarify this if you didn't randomly capitalize it.
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Touche, salesman.
But ubernoob, I'll entertain your theory. Let's look at some historical pitcher seasons and their defenses in comparison to their season.
1973 : Nolan Ryan
ERA : 2.87
Hits allowed : 238
Walks : 162
K's : 383
California Angels 1973 team defensive stats
fielding % : .975
team errors : 156
Zone rating : -49
Number of fielders with double digit errors that year : four (including Rudy Meoli's oh-so-impressive 30 errors at shortstop)
You're right. That defense was obviously pretty darned.....impressive. As in not very impressively good. But Ryan had one of the best seasons of his career. So, based off of your statement, his ERA should have been somewhere around like 4.00 because that defense was not very good. But it wasn't. Why was it 2.87? OH YEAH. CUZ DEFENSE DIDN'T MATTER.
Let's take another example!
1995 Greg Maddux
ERA : 1.63
Hits allowed : 147
Walks : 23
K's : 181
1995 Atlanta Braves team defense
RTO% : 22%
Number of players with double digit errors : 2 (Chipper Jones, in all of his wonderful defensive prowess, committed an astonishingly low 25 errors at third)
Team fielding percentage : .982
Zone rating : +19
Now....Jones aside, that's a pretty dang good defense. You're going to sit there and try to tell me, though, that Greg Maddux, a renowned contact pitcher, ONLY had this season because of that? Like...his catchers were bad, his third baseman was worse...they were good but not perfect. Again...NO.
Let's actually look at a team instead of individuals. Let's look at probably one of the greatest defensive teams ever assembled.
1985 St. Louis Cardinals
Team defensive stats
Fielding % : .983
Zone rating : +50 (holy crap!)
Team errors : 108
Team ERA : 3.10
By your logic, every single pitcher on that squad should have had the single greatest seasons of their careers. They had a starter with an ERA on the wrong side of over 4.00 (4.75) and another close to 4.00 (3.90). How did a defense of Ozzie Smith, Terry Pendleton, Andy Van Slyke, Willie McGee, and company allow that? Clearly it was their fault entirely, and NOT the pitcher!
So....just...just stop. Defense means jack diddly balls to a pitcher's ERA. The pitcher's ability to prevent runners from getting on base does. When you watch a game, and let's say it has a total of 20 hits, do you notice A. a game where all 20 hits were plays that the defender miiiiiiiiight have gotten to it if they were just good enough or B. a game where about 18 of those 20 hits were a good 40 feet away from anyone possibly being able to field it. If a person can't get to a ball, how can you say that's the defender's fault? Do they have teleportation powers that we've just never seen them use before? NO.
Heck, let's take a RECENT game? Did you see that Phillies/Mets game last night? You're telling me that it's somehow David Hale's fault that Rhys Hoskins is a total bonehead? You're....you're joking. Tell me that's a joke! Like...that play was on par with Jose Canseco letting a ball bounce off his noggin levels of hilariously horrendous.
So...no. ERA is not determined by defense. It is determined by the pitcher's ability to get batters out by either a. making them swing and miss a lot (Ryan), or b. not giving them anything they can get a hit on (Maddux). It is absolutely a pitcher stat.
So let's try that again...