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Charlie Hough · 12-02-2020, 05:39 PM

If the real issue is that good fielders in OOTP are having a disproportionate effect on offense, defense or stat distribution, to the point that overall league output or core individual player stats are far removed from real life, then I think those stats should probably be the focus rather than total zone runs.

Markus and company will probably be moved by discrepancies in core league totals or primary individual stats rather than sabermetrics such as total zone runs.

There is so much arbitrariness in how total zone runs are calculated, especially for most of baseball history, that I couldn't imagine using it as a basis for measuring real fielding performance or comparing real life data to OOTP results. Here's the definition and explanation of the methodology provided by Baseball Reference:
https://www.baseball-reference.com/a...tal_zone.shtml

Do we know what method OOTP is using to calculate total zone runs and whether that's equivalent to the different methods used to calculate this stat for players before 1989 vs. the different methods and inputs used for more recent seasons? My guess is that OOTP is using only one method, whereas Baseball Reference is using multiple methods based on the year and available data, as explained in the definition, and that could be the source of the discrepancy right there.

If not, I still think the focus needs to be on the actual discrepancies in overall league output and the distribution of core individual player stats rather than sabermetrics such as total zone runs. For example, if good fielders are committing far too few errors while those errors are all getting dumped on other players, then where are those numbers? If good fielders are having too much influence on overall results, then where are the stats showing that overall league batting averages are too low or that a batting average against a specific team is way too low?

I've been away for a few years, so my apologies if people have been discussing and presenting evidence in these other stats. But I think that's where the hope lies in convincing anyone of anything.

12-02-2020, 05:39 PM	#21
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,644	If the real issue is that good fielders in OOTP are having a disproportionate effect on offense, defense or stat distribution, to the point that overall league output or core individual player stats are far removed from real life, then I think those stats should probably be the focus rather than total zone runs. Markus and company will probably be moved by discrepancies in core league totals or primary individual stats rather than sabermetrics such as total zone runs. There is so much arbitrariness in how total zone runs are calculated, especially for most of baseball history, that I couldn't imagine using it as a basis for measuring real fielding performance or comparing real life data to OOTP results. Here's the definition and explanation of the methodology provided by Baseball Reference: https://www.baseball-reference.com/a...tal_zone.shtml Do we know what method OOTP is using to calculate total zone runs and whether that's equivalent to the different methods used to calculate this stat for players before 1989 vs. the different methods and inputs used for more recent seasons? My guess is that OOTP is using only one method, whereas Baseball Reference is using multiple methods based on the year and available data, as explained in the definition, and that could be the source of the discrepancy right there. If not, I still think the focus needs to be on the actual discrepancies in overall league output and the distribution of core individual player stats rather than sabermetrics such as total zone runs. For example, if good fielders are committing far too few errors while those errors are all getting dumped on other players, then where are those numbers? If good fielders are having too much influence on overall results, then where are the stats showing that overall league batting averages are too low or that a batting average against a specific team is way too low? I've been away for a few years, so my apologies if people have been discussing and presenting evidence in these other stats. But I think that's where the hope lies in convincing anyone of anything.