Quote:
Originally Posted by allenciox
One interesting tidbit: Since I had some pack luck with this team, the overall AH value of my roster is just over 500,000 PP. For my other two teams, it is closer to 300,000 PP.
|
I was curious what the typical PP value of a WS winning OL team is. As far as I know there are only 4 of them, accounting for 5 WS titles. In order of recency:
Bold Strategy Cottons (2040) (anti-lefties)
Southern Southpaws (2039) (lefties)
Harlem Hatchets (2038) (balanced)
California Quantum Condors (2037) (lefties)
Bold Strategy Cottons (2032) (max contact, min power)
The Fargo victory this past season broke a 4-year stretch of OL titles, interestingly. Anyway, the PP value of these teams, currently (under my best estimates):
================================================== ================================================== ==========
BOLD STRATEGY COTTONS:
Pitching:
SP 96 Mussina (45k) [Locked]
SP 94 CC Sabathia (30k)
SP 89 Greg Maddux (16k)
SP 96 Mort Cooper (20k)
RP 77 Steve Howe (1k)
RP 88 Hong-Chih Kuo (9k)
RP 90 Pedro Borbon (4k)
RP 89 Rollie Fingers (10k)
RP 77 Hersh Freeman (2k)
SP 85 Brett Anderson (3k)
SP 89 Dizzy Dean (8k)
PITCHING: 148k [45k locked]
The Cottons post among the best ERAs in the league every year since their return from Diamond in 2039, which I 100% credit the park factors for and not this pitching staff. Anyway, know that 150k is enough to buy a competent pitching staff if your park factors are right.
Batting:
C 95 Darrell Porter (21k)
1B 97 Norm Cash (20k)
2B 96 Cal Ripken Jr (30k) [Locked]
3B 97 Scott Rolen (30k)
SS 89 Joe Cronin (15k) [Locked]
LF 94 Rickey Henderson (30k?) [Locked]
CF 91 Lenny Dykstra (21k)
RF 98 Carl Yastzemski (68k)
DH 89 Willie McCovey (5k)
1B 86 Dick Allen (2k)
DH 87 Harry Heilmann (7k)
SS 98 Francisco Lindor (5k)
RF 86 Magglio Ordonez (4k)
C 89 Mike Stanley (2k)
BATTING: 250k [105k locked]
I definitely don't think you need 250k for a competitive batting lineup. I am surprised that it costs this much, it is by no means a dominant lineup. But there are a lot of players here, and I think any non lefty/righty team needs at least 4 backup fielders and at least 3 platoons.
TOTAL: 398k [150k locked].
For context, I've squeezed maybe 35k of value from the locked players and I've seen about 25k in value gain from recent sets (Porter, Yaz), so the true cost of the team is closer to 340k. I think ~250k+ is what you need to be competitive, roughly.
================================================== ====
PLAYERS ON BOTH WS TEAMS:
85 Anderson
96 Cooper
89 Maddux
96 Mussina
80 Borbon
77 Freeman
77 Howe
86 Magglio
98 Yaz
94 Rickey
89 Cronin
87 Lindor
86 Allen
95 Porter
================================================== ================================================== ==========
HARLEM HATCHETS:
Pitching:
SP 100 Big Walt (450k?)
SP 100 Nolan Ryan (60k?)
SP 94 Reuschel (25k?)
SP 95 Liriano (28k)
SP 92 Niekro (20k?)
RP 96 Papelbon (30k?)
RP 77 Tekulve (1k)
RP 91 Terry Forster (20k?)
SP 92 Chris Short (20k?)
SP 88 Steve Carlton (5k?)
SP 89 Maddux (18k)
SP 91 Yovani Gallardo (10k)
PITCHING: 687k
Yowza. That is an enormous investing in starting pitching (mostly Big Walt, but the bullpen of SPs and the rest of the rotation is pretty good too). Good enough for an average ERA of about 4 for the past 4 years, which is roughly 8th or so in the league.
Batting:
RF 93 Bernie Carbo (7k)
CF 90 Andrew McCutchen (15k?)
LF 98 Carl Yastrzemski (68k)
SS 93 Troy Tulowitski (17k)
3B 96 Eddie Mathews (25k?)
2B 88 Frankie Frisch (5k)
1B 69 Wes Parker (100)
DH 95 Willie Stargell (15k?)
C 69 Mike Lavalliere (1k)
RF 95 Aaron Judge (30k?)
CF 82 Kevin McReynolds (2k)
SS 89 Al Dark (2k?)
C 89 Carlton Fisk (10k)
BATTING: 197k
This is mostly due to 98 Yaz, who got a 20k boost due to the Red Sox collection, but still, almost 200k. This offense also ranks near the bottom of the league, usually 25th or worse.
TOTAL: 884k
About half of this is Big Walt, which is kind of hilarious. He generates roughly 7k PP per year alone for Harlem, which is also hilarious (that's 140k since being pulled near the beginning of the game). So it's like a weird investment, though who knows if that's better all in one place vs. spread over several players. Still, Harlem clearly has the most expensive pitching staff of the winners, likely the most expensive one in the league as well, because of him.
================================================== ================================================== ==========
CALIFORNIA QUANTUM CONDORS:
Pitching:
SP 94 Kershaw (30k)
SP 94 CC Sabathia (30k)
SP 94 Eddie Plank (22k)
SP 85 Brett Anderson (3k)
RP 90 Pedro Borbon (4k)
RP 89 Rollie Fingers (10k)
RP 84 Gene Garber (4k) [Locked]
RP 77 Hersh Freeman (2k)
RP 77 Steve Howe (1k)
RP 80 Tom Burgmeier (2k)
SP 82 Rick Reuschel (2k)
SP 88 Claude Passeau (3k)
PITCHING: 113k [4k locked]
Easily, easily the cheapest staff so far. Lefty SPs are just dominant in the playoffs against opposing lefty teams, which is the reason why the Condors had success in their WS title.
Batting:
RF 98 Yaz (68k) [Locked]
CF 91 Lenny Dykstra (23k)
LF 84 Erstad (7k)
SS 84 Pesky (17k)
3B 89 Boggs (10k)
2B 95 Gehringer (30k) (did not have this for the WS, used 5k 87 Lindor)
1B 87 Rod Carew (13k)
DH 95 Votto (22k) (did not have, used 5k 89 McCovey for WS)
C 86 Smoky Burgess (14k)
DH 87 Harry Heilmann (7k)
CF 78 Devon White (1k)
SS 89 Joe Cronin (15k) [Locked]
C 69 Mike Lavalliere (1k)
BATTING: 228k [83k locked]
Like the Southpaws, this team invests more heavily in batting than pitching. I think lefty teams have this luxury moreso than others, since even average lefty pitching can really be shut down against other lefty teams. Against righties we just use our park factors. But batting? We need to commit heavily to combat both those lefty staffs as well as the usual RHPs.
TOTAL: 341k [87k locked]
I probably squeezed 50k in value from the locked players, plus there are roughly 35k in value gains from recent sets alone (Pesky, Yaz, etc.), so the price I paid was closer to about 250k. This was the cheapest of the teams that won a WS, but I think it's cheaper to go all in on lefties with a chance at success than any other strategy because it's just such an all-in gameplan that magnifies the talents of every player on your roster. Even relatively average players become superstars here.
================================================== ================================================== ==========
So, restating the list:
398k, Bold Strategy Cottons (2040) (anti-lefties)
516k, Southern Southpaws (2039) (lefties)
884k, Harlem Hatchets (2038) (balanced)
341k, California Quantum Condors (2037) (lefties)
398k, Bold Strategy Cottons (2032) (max contact, min power)
It appears that 300k might be the realistic minimum team cost you need to be competitive at this level, though it's very possible to be proven wrong on that. I might argue a team could compete at 250k, but it would have to be a very well oiled machine. 400k+ team cost is absolutely enough, so all you managers with good pack luck and a team cost around there, you absolutely have the ability to win a Perfect WS.
And, in my opinion, probably most of these teams could compete for a Perfect WS even outside of OL (especially the perennially dominant Southpaws). We saw the worst-in-league-record Boppers secure a playoff berth in Perfect last season, which I think validates this view somewhat. OL is damn competitive.