[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

Bill Madlock, Don Mattingly, Keith Hernandez, Jim Edmunds,

They all have 3-5 amazing years, and then an insufficient number of "filler" years that they would have needed to be in the HoF.

Madlock:
-- 3 time All Star
-- Lifetime .305 hitter, with over 2000 hits
-- Won FOUR batting titles
-- Career OPS+ of 123
-- Career OPS of .807
-- Career WAR of only 41, with 49 oWar, and minus 8 dWar
-- No Gold Glovers. Terrible fielder

Mattingly:
-- 6 time All Star
-- Lifetime .307 hitter, with 2153 hits
-- Won ONE batting title
-- Career OPS+ of 127
-- Career OPS of .830
-- Career WAR of only 40, with 47 oWar, and minus 6 dWar
-- Nine Gold Gloves

Keith Hernandez:
-- 5 time All Star
-- Lifetime .296 hitter, with 2182 hits
-- Won ONE batting title
-- Career OPS+ of 128
-- Career OPS of .821
-- Career WAR of 46, 45 oWar, and +1 dWar
-- Eleven Gold Gloves
He's in the Hall of Very Good

Jim Edmunds:
-- Four time All Star
-- Lifetime .284 hitter, with 1949 hits
-- No batting titles
-- Career OPS+ of 132..best of this bunch
-- Career OPS of .903
-- Career WAR of 57...significantly higher than the rest
-- Eight Gold Gloves


Let's now look at Mauer stats:
-- Six time All Star
-- Lifetime .308 hitter, with 2025 hits
-- Three batting titles
-- Career OPS+ of 126
-- Career OPS of .832
-- Career WAR of 53
-- Three Gold Gloves

If you put Mauer in, RIGHT NOW, then you have to put in all five, plus another 15 players I can mention...Dave Parker and Harold Baines, Dale Murphy, Sheffield, Crime Dog, Jim Rice....they're everywhere.

IF Mauer plays another five years, with decent stats, then maybe. He will not get 3000 hits, he will not have a career .300 average, he will not be an All Star again, and his cumulative stats just aren't anywhere near high enough.

His career OPS+ of 126 is very, VERY low for a future Hall of Famer.

His career OPS of .832, as compared to Edmunds' .901, clearly doesn't measure up.

The ONLY advantage Mauer had is his defensive position as a catcher. In this position, his defense sucked so hard (minus career dWar) that he was moved away from being a catcher, into a prime offensive position, DH. I can argue that he sucks as a DH as well..limited power.

The elephant in the room is that Mauer, just once, drove in more than 85 runs. This is TERRIBLE. Yeah..Piazza did it 11 times.

Mauer is in the Hall of Very Good..in no way, shape or form a Hall of Famer.

Not sure where you're getting your overall WAR numbers from. You're getting the oWAR and dWAR correct for everybody, but the overall WAR numbers are...off. I'll round to the nearest number for each:

Madlock: 49 oWAR, -9 dWAR, 38 rWAR, 35 fWAR

Mattingly: 40 oWAR, -6 dWAR, 42 rWAR, 41 fWAR

Hernandez: 46 oWAR, 1 dWAR, 60 rWAR, 59 fWAR

Edmonds: 57 oWAR, 6 dWAR, 60 rWAR, 65 fWAR

Mauer (through games of May 27, 2018): 53 oWAR, 3 dWAR, 55 rWAR, 49 fWAR

Where rWAR = BB-Ref WAR, and fWAR = fangraphs WAR

I would definitely stump for Edmonds' and Hernandez' inclusion in the Hall, but not Madlock or Mattingly. As for Mauer's position there is only one question to ask: Where did he accrue the most value as a player? Mauer is a catcher for the same reason Ernie Banks is a shortstop and Rod Carew is a second baseman (despite the fact that both Banks and Carew accrued more playing time as first basemen). I think Mauer's a lot closer than some in this thread, and I think his lifetime OBP (.391) has a lot to do with it, to go with having some great offensive seasons while playing catcher. I also have a question re: Mauer's defense at catcher. Was it that his defense "sucked so hard" or was it recurring concussions, and wanting to move a terrific athlete/face of the franchise from behind the plate to a spot where there is much less of a concussion risk before those concussions cost him his career? Before answering, consider this.