Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffy25
Y
And a 4/5 power (on a scout scale, I'm assuming 40/50?) anyway, that's very measurable. They can measure the guys load, swing path, time, efficiency of swing, likely developmental size, etc.
It's not based on some scouts opinion anymore. It's based on what they can very easily measure and compare to others.
You still have to get to know the players, develop the individual, build the character, and all the warm and fuzzy parts of player development. That stuff doesn't disappear. We just don't need fallible people sizing up to make mistakes with huge investments.
Put their swings on the camera, measure the points, size up the potential with modifications, and then assess the character and aptitudes.
No, I just asked for your top 10 list
Here is mine
(I prefer to tier instead of straight line rank)
Tier 1
Bench
Tier 2
Carter
Pudge
Fisk
Tier 3
Berra
Piazza
Torre (if you count him as a catcher)
Tier 4
Hartnett
Cochrane
Simmons
There are my top 10^
Tier 5
Mauer
Tenace
Downing
Munson
Freehan
Posada
Others
I can easily be persuaded to put Mauer in the 4th tier, Posey is heading for Tier 3 or 4, but I wanna see a few more years of him avoiding massive decline. Yadier is probably safely in Tier 5, but could reach Tier 4. But I'm not including Posey and Yadier for the purpose of this discussion, but I placed Mauer so you had an idea.
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4/8. 5/8. "That's what it was back when I was bangin'" (Costanza)
Some now use 20/80. Mine were 8. Anything below 5 was less than desired to me.
There's quite a few better than Mauer you've missed. Campanella. Ferrell.
I'd take Yadi, even with his ridiculous neck tatoos, a hundred times over before I took Mauer. First, Yadi is a CATCHER. He's a better catcher. By a lot. He's aged a lot, but that's because he's caught freaking 14000 innings.
That makes him a MUCH better catcher; and IMMENSELY more valuable. We are still talking about catchers, aren't we?
Posey. Way better than Mauer. They'll have similar paths though, I bet, with position switches.
I'd put Mauer at the end of that list, adding the guys I mentioned, and perhaps a few others. He is NOT a catcher. 7000 innings? That's not enough.
The point is WAR and all these subjective stats are held out as the be all end all and they are not. They are completely fabricated in an effort to apply "metrics" to everything.
Every discussion on this always leads me to the easiest argument ever that sabremetrics don't always work. The 2014 and 15 Royals were supposed to be HORRIBLE. They were built with scouting. Not with WAR or sabremetrics. What they have now was built with sabremetrics.
You can only use WAR if you have unlimited funds, because guess what? Unless you luck into Zito, Hudson, Mulder, Chavez, Tejada, Dye, etc. (None of whom were the result of sabremetric approaches to finding them), it ain't gonna work. Buying or not buying players based upon WAR and the like is ruining the game. It's also resulting in a TON of teams racing to the bottom. Again, ruining the game.
I read all these people who love these sabremetrics decrying supposed collusion in this past offseason. Guess what? A big reason certain guys were not signed is because of sabremetrics. Front offices are afraid to use the "eye test" of their scouts before spending money because it's a big "get out of jail free" card to have the "well, I used all the accepted sabremetrics" if it goes badly.
That's how it's ruining the game. (you didn't ask that but someone did)