OOTP Developments Forums - View Single Post - Online Leagues - "Rebuilding", Tanking, Win Later, Lose Now

KBLover · 06-22-2003, 06:13 PM

Personally, I have a "problem" (meaning I don't agree with it) with a team that would trade a 28 year-old allstar for a #2 pick.

Trade the guy for a couple #1's or a high #1 and some top-notch prospects.

I think the problem is with the team offering up their talented players for cheap. Would I jump on a 28 year old that could help me now if it only cost me a #2? Sure would. Some here might argue that I'm "part of the problem" but if I see a chance to make my team better for a low price and I can afford the salary, etc. I'm jumping on it.

The only time I really take apart my teams that are contending is usually if I fear too many retirements and want to "take a few years off" to restock the farm so I can get some more talent up to the big club, or if I decide to just run run run with the team until they all collapse and I turn into a loser team due to attrition.

But either way, I go all out. If I'm competing, I'm continuing to compete. If I'm starting rebuilding, I'm going all out with the draft-and-trade type strategy. (I normally avoid the FA markets because all that usually becomes is a hot-bed for paying players 40% more than they are worth

)

I basically run my teams as if I was in the pre-FA era of sports in general. Draft, trade, develop in-house when you can. If that's considered an "exploit" then so be it. Takes longer, but that's my way. I'm more than willing to put up with losing seasons as long as the kids are working up. My rebuildings usually take 8 years, and I don't know how everyone else avoids the fan hits, but I feel them hard...and yes they are game issued, not the result of a commish-made rule.

I also have a team were I drafted prospects out of the initial draft. I had no players over 30 and only a few over 26. I sucked (but did win 60 games) then won 77. Then in the third year I won 99, but I did it by using the excesses in the farm to get MLB talent to add when I saw WISE trades to make and pieces to add at the deadline when I saw my team was looking like they wanted to compete. This league uses OOTP2 (which, to me, seems like the most unpredictable player development of any in the series)

Drafting prospects does take skill. If it didn't, you could just pick any joe and turn into a winner. So I don't understand that argument that rebuilding/developing with prospects doesn't take any skill.

I also don't agree that a team should be forced to play a kid before he's within his talent ratings. If a kid a 5/Brilliant across the board, and I'm in rebuilding mode, why rush him and risk hurting his growth. That kid was drafted to be the centerpiece when he's ready, but at those ratings, he's not ready. Plus, you start the clock on him earlier, and for what? For him to bat .230? How is that any more right?

Tanking, I don't agree with, but I don't think any attempt at rebuilding or "making moves I wouldn't make" should be regarded as tanking. I wouldn't trade a 26 year old SS that was dominating at his position in almost an A-Rod like fashion (in fact the SS I have I gave an 18 mil extension to make her sign with my team!), but most of the other owners would probably have traded her to a winner and got picks, or if the team was competitive (I wasn't and the player likes winning teams, part of the reason why it took so much money), they'd probably keep her and run for the title and hope to resign in the FA period.

I've long thought that OOTP needed to put "Prestige" or something on the players to denote real star power (or I guess go by ratings, but OOTP5 seems too HR-favoring in its star ratings, at least in my opinion and the way the players perform).

Having checked out the AWR of the one league that mentioned it, I think that's a pretty interesting idea. At least that league is trying to quantify expectations and came up with a system to implement it. It might not be perfect, but at least it's something.

I think comparing a fantasy league to the real MLB is a lost cause. There's too many subtle things that go on in real life that haven't been simulated in a game. OOTP has no concept of who's "real life good" so using the position of "it happens/doesn't happen in real life" isn't a good idea, imo, because OOTP doesn't use that when doing many of things it does.

That's why we all still love/follow the real game even if we're avid sim baseball players.

06-22-2003, 06:13 PM	#173
KBLover All Star Reserve Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 580	Personally, I have a "problem" (meaning I don't agree with it) with a team that would trade a 28 year-old allstar for a #2 pick. Trade the guy for a couple #1's or a high #1 and some top-notch prospects. I think the problem is with the team offering up their talented players for cheap. Would I jump on a 28 year old that could help me now if it only cost me a #2? Sure would. Some here might argue that I'm "part of the problem" but if I see a chance to make my team better for a low price and I can afford the salary, etc. I'm jumping on it. The only time I really take apart my teams that are contending is usually if I fear too many retirements and want to "take a few years off" to restock the farm so I can get some more talent up to the big club, or if I decide to just run run run with the team until they all collapse and I turn into a loser team due to attrition. But either way, I go all out. If I'm competing, I'm continuing to compete. If I'm starting rebuilding, I'm going all out with the draft-and-trade type strategy. (I normally avoid the FA markets because all that usually becomes is a hot-bed for paying players 40% more than they are worth ) I basically run my teams as if I was in the pre-FA era of sports in general. Draft, trade, develop in-house when you can. If that's considered an "exploit" then so be it. Takes longer, but that's my way. I'm more than willing to put up with losing seasons as long as the kids are working up. My rebuildings usually take 8 years, and I don't know how everyone else avoids the fan hits, but I feel them hard...and yes they are game issued, not the result of a commish-made rule. I also have a team were I drafted prospects out of the initial draft. I had no players over 30 and only a few over 26. I sucked (but did win 60 games) then won 77. Then in the third year I won 99, but I did it by using the excesses in the farm to get MLB talent to add when I saw WISE trades to make and pieces to add at the deadline when I saw my team was looking like they wanted to compete. This league uses OOTP2 (which, to me, seems like the most unpredictable player development of any in the series) Drafting prospects does take skill. If it didn't, you could just pick any joe and turn into a winner. So I don't understand that argument that rebuilding/developing with prospects doesn't take any skill. I also don't agree that a team should be forced to play a kid before he's within his talent ratings. If a kid a 5/Brilliant across the board, and I'm in rebuilding mode, why rush him and risk hurting his growth. That kid was drafted to be the centerpiece when he's ready, but at those ratings, he's not ready. Plus, you start the clock on him earlier, and for what? For him to bat .230? How is that any more right? Tanking, I don't agree with, but I don't think any attempt at rebuilding or "making moves I wouldn't make" should be regarded as tanking. I wouldn't trade a 26 year old SS that was dominating at his position in almost an A-Rod like fashion (in fact the SS I have I gave an 18 mil extension to make her sign with my team!), but most of the other owners would probably have traded her to a winner and got picks, or if the team was competitive (I wasn't and the player likes winning teams, part of the reason why it took so much money), they'd probably keep her and run for the title and hope to resign in the FA period. I've long thought that OOTP needed to put "Prestige" or something on the players to denote real star power (or I guess go by ratings, but OOTP5 seems too HR-favoring in its star ratings, at least in my opinion and the way the players perform). Having checked out the AWR of the one league that mentioned it, I think that's a pretty interesting idea. At least that league is trying to quantify expectations and came up with a system to implement it. It might not be perfect, but at least it's something. I think comparing a fantasy league to the real MLB is a lost cause. There's too many subtle things that go on in real life that haven't been simulated in a game. OOTP has no concept of who's "real life good" so using the position of "it happens/doesn't happen in real life" isn't a good idea, imo, because OOTP doesn't use that when doing many of things it does. That's why we all still love/follow the real game even if we're avid sim baseball players. Last edited by KBLover; 06-22-2003 at 06:17 PM.