Quote:
Originally Posted by MLHFFYP
Thanks for your views.
It's a hard issue to address because instinctively you would assume that everything today has to be better. However, in terms of the issue I first brought up I believe that Johnson threw in the high 90's but is brought into the game with much less velocity.
I think this is, again, a shortfall in the data and was wondering why he is brought in with such a reduced velocity.
Much has to be considered when comparing old time players with modern ones. Fields are better today by quantum leaps, equipment is much better certainly, and transportation is easier. Also, and I mentioned this before, pitchers weren't expected to throw hard all game as the emphasis was not on power pitching.
However, I am not sure about the baseline quality of the player. I believe that the skill set for baseball players is such that the difference is not very great.
In terms of physicality, there were bigger and smaller players then as now. Cobb and Shoeless Joe were over six feet and in tremendous shape. Cy Young was 6'2" and 210 pounds while Walter Johnson was 6'1" and 200 pounds. Perhaps there is a study around that can show the averages for a typical ball player back then but I haven't seen one.
My whole point, really, is that evidence strongly indicates that Walter Johnson threw in the high 90's. Yet, he is brought into the game with less velocity. Why?
Thanks for your thoughts. Interesting subject, isn't it?
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Yes, it's an interesting subject.
You're right that you have to be careful comparing players from different eras. But to suggest players of 100 or 50 years ago are equal physically to today's players is fairly dubious. It's always _possible_, of course, because no one really _knows_ nuthin'. But the average human being is bigger today than they were 100 years ago. Athletes have always been bigger than the general population, and baseball players are clearly bigger today. There are many, many studies available...just do a Google on average baseball player size and you'll find a ton of them. Here's one -
DOES SIZE REALLY MATTER? Today's major leaguers are bigger and stronger than those of earlier eras - physical size of baseball players | Baseball Digest | Find Articles at BNET . In addition, the absolute fact that measurable performance of athletes in other sports has clearly improved very strongly suggests that baseball players are also improved over the decades.
Anyway, that physical difference will certainly make a difference in at least several performance elements associated with baseball skills--especially since that size is coming with at least equal quickness and athleticism. If nothing else the genetic pool of baseball players is considerably increased over those who played in the first 50 years of baseball history. To ignore these things, or suggest they don't matter, is hard for me to agree with.
Of course, pitching velocity is not really one of the elements that is tied strongly to size. Small guys can manage to throw really hard, just as big guys can. Velocity is about a lot of things, not the least is mechanics.
Could Walter Johnson have thrown 97-100 MPH? Sure, it's possible. But it's also possible, and at least as likely that he threw 93 and that 93 was 8 MPH faster than the fastball of the average pitcher of the era and that he had a big enough size advantage for his era that he could throw at that rate for longer than the average starter...hence his rep was (rightly) deserved.
Bottom line: I have no idea how fast Walter Johnson threw. The probem, of course is that neither do you, and neither does anyone else, hence neither does OOTP. The beauty of the sim is that you can make this happen yourself, though. So, if you want Johnson or Feller or whoever to throw 100, then edit him up. It's all good.