OOTP Developments Forums - View Single Post - Trade AI Discussion Master Thread (trying to gather everything in one place)

marc420 · 04-20-2003, 09:50 PM

In reading this thread, I've thought of one thing I haven't seen mentioned yet. The one thing I might think about changing in this system is the part where a team immediately agrees to a deal when they get a good offer.

To me, this sounds a little fishy in real life, and it could provide a way of balancing out the AI trade system.

Instead of agreeing immediately to the trade, teams would instead signal that they think this is a decent idea for a trade, but not agree to it on that day. Then team would offer the players they are offering to your team to the other AI teams, just to see what they could get.

Picture this. If a real-life GM is trying to trade a veteran from a non-contending team just before the trade deadline, he isn't just talking to one team. At some point he's probably talked to every team. Then its probably developed into a short list of a few teams that are interested. Then he's probably talking to each team, trying to see what each will offer. At some point he may have several trades arranged, but may try to get each team to add one more player just to see if they will. Then as the trade deadline approaches, he'll pick what he thinks is the best offer he's seen and make that trade.

So I'm thinking the AI teams could do the same. Trading should be a process that takes place over several game days. Now if you make an offer that is just incredibly wonderful and the AI thinks its a steal, they may immediately accept. Otherwise, they'll negotiate with you to work out a tentative agreement. But then they'll shop the players in that tentative agreement around the league.

So there's an above example where an AI team had offered say Bobby Abreu for a 1 star minor league catcher. So what I'm thinking is once that tentative deal is agreed to, the AI team takes the time to start calling other AI GM's. Basically saying, "Hey, we are thinking about trading Abreu. Would you be interested, and who might you offer?" Then when the AI gets the responses from the other teams, the AI would compare what they'd offered to the 1star minor league catcher you'd offered. If that was still the best deal, then they might be ready to conclude the deal at that point. If the other AI teams were offereing more than you were for Abreu, then the AI GM you are dealing with would come back on a following day and tell you that you need to increase your offer, or they'll trade Abreu to another team.

This way, the various AI teams would act as a check on each other against stupid trades. And the game would resemble more of the marketplace it should. If a team is willing to trade a player, what they are willing to accept for that player would depend more on the value the various GM's in the league put on the player, not just on one AI's calculation.

Actually, where this really struck me was in the Free Agent market in OOPT4. My jaw almost hit the floor the first time I was negotiating with a free agent, and when I hit a price he liked he immediately signed with me. Any real-life agent that did that should be fired for incompetence. The agent's response should have been something like "That's a very interesting offer. We'll get back to you." Then the agent would contact other GM's to see if any wanted to top my offer. If not, the agent might call me back and agree to sign. If someone topped my offer,then the agent would not immediately sign with that team either, but would call me back and see if I wanted to raise my offer.

Both an AI agent for a Free Agent player, and an AI GM considering making a trade should be very happy to get a bidding war going to raise the price of a deal.

And if this got really good, both would be willing to bluff at times.

In programming terms, the AI GM would set a floor value for a player. Below this level, the AI GM would not consider trading a player, as the AI GM feels that keeping the player on the team is a better option than any deal offered below this level.

The AI GM would also set an upper level. Any trade offer above this level would indeed be immediately accepted, as the GM who offered a deal this good appears to be a complete idiot and the AI decides to seal the deal before he changes his mind. (Note: at this point, the other GM, if its an AI should say something like "this is interesting, we'll get back to you." Then shop the deal around).

Between those two levels, the final value of make-up of the trade would depend on what the market allows. That would happen over several game days as teams make various trade offers and counter offers to each other. Only when a team feels like it has the best offers on the table that it is going to get should the AI GM decide which offer to take.

That sort of system should provide a much more realistic feel than a single AI trying to decide if a trade is good or not. What the single AI should be doing is comparing different offers for a player (or players) and deciding which is best for its team.

04-20-2003, 09:50 PM	#38
marc420 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Terrapin Station Posts: 112	In reading this thread, I've thought of one thing I haven't seen mentioned yet. The one thing I might think about changing in this system is the part where a team immediately agrees to a deal when they get a good offer. To me, this sounds a little fishy in real life, and it could provide a way of balancing out the AI trade system. Instead of agreeing immediately to the trade, teams would instead signal that they think this is a decent idea for a trade, but not agree to it on that day. Then team would offer the players they are offering to your team to the other AI teams, just to see what they could get. Picture this. If a real-life GM is trying to trade a veteran from a non-contending team just before the trade deadline, he isn't just talking to one team. At some point he's probably talked to every team. Then its probably developed into a short list of a few teams that are interested. Then he's probably talking to each team, trying to see what each will offer. At some point he may have several trades arranged, but may try to get each team to add one more player just to see if they will. Then as the trade deadline approaches, he'll pick what he thinks is the best offer he's seen and make that trade. So I'm thinking the AI teams could do the same. Trading should be a process that takes place over several game days. Now if you make an offer that is just incredibly wonderful and the AI thinks its a steal, they may immediately accept. Otherwise, they'll negotiate with you to work out a tentative agreement. But then they'll shop the players in that tentative agreement around the league. So there's an above example where an AI team had offered say Bobby Abreu for a 1 star minor league catcher. So what I'm thinking is once that tentative deal is agreed to, the AI team takes the time to start calling other AI GM's. Basically saying, "Hey, we are thinking about trading Abreu. Would you be interested, and who might you offer?" Then when the AI gets the responses from the other teams, the AI would compare what they'd offered to the 1star minor league catcher you'd offered. If that was still the best deal, then they might be ready to conclude the deal at that point. If the other AI teams were offereing more than you were for Abreu, then the AI GM you are dealing with would come back on a following day and tell you that you need to increase your offer, or they'll trade Abreu to another team. This way, the various AI teams would act as a check on each other against stupid trades. And the game would resemble more of the marketplace it should. If a team is willing to trade a player, what they are willing to accept for that player would depend more on the value the various GM's in the league put on the player, not just on one AI's calculation. Actually, where this really struck me was in the Free Agent market in OOPT4. My jaw almost hit the floor the first time I was negotiating with a free agent, and when I hit a price he liked he immediately signed with me. Any real-life agent that did that should be fired for incompetence. The agent's response should have been something like "That's a very interesting offer. We'll get back to you." Then the agent would contact other GM's to see if any wanted to top my offer. If not, the agent might call me back and agree to sign. If someone topped my offer,then the agent would not immediately sign with that team either, but would call me back and see if I wanted to raise my offer. Both an AI agent for a Free Agent player, and an AI GM considering making a trade should be very happy to get a bidding war going to raise the price of a deal. And if this got really good, both would be willing to bluff at times. In programming terms, the AI GM would set a floor value for a player. Below this level, the AI GM would not consider trading a player, as the AI GM feels that keeping the player on the team is a better option than any deal offered below this level. The AI GM would also set an upper level. Any trade offer above this level would indeed be immediately accepted, as the GM who offered a deal this good appears to be a complete idiot and the AI decides to seal the deal before he changes his mind. (Note: at this point, the other GM, if its an AI should say something like "this is interesting, we'll get back to you." Then shop the deal around). Between those two levels, the final value of make-up of the trade would depend on what the market allows. That would happen over several game days as teams make various trade offers and counter offers to each other. Only when a team feels like it has the best offers on the table that it is going to get should the AI GM decide which offer to take. That sort of system should provide a much more realistic feel than a single AI trying to decide if a trade is good or not. What the single AI should be doing is comparing different offers for a player (or players) and deciding which is best for its team.