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Curtis · 05-24-2007, 02:51 AM

Okay, now we're getting out of the realm where I know things and into the realm where I believe things, so take all of this as educated guessing only.

I believe that if you have pitcher endurance set to 'normal' in league setup, any number of pitches up to 100 shouldn't hurt AS LONG AS the pitcher is 100% rested before his start. If endurance is set to 'below normal' or 'low', I would guess that 90 and 80 pitches (or maybe 95 and 90), respectively, would be your uppermost safe limits. If endurance is set to 'above normal' or 'high' you can probably add 5 (or maybe 10) pitches per appearance to the safe limits per category above 'normal'.

For relievers the whole thing gets murkier. My personal policy has been that relievers should be limited to around 20 pitches if their endurance rating is 20 or less, and to whatever their endurance is (32 in your example) if it's above 20. Certainly, your relievers will (or should) dramatically lose effectiveness well before they reach 90 pitches, even if they have very high endurance ratings. Leaving a pitcher in after he loses effectiveness OR after he tells you he's tired during a mound visit is a bad idea.

The endurance rating seems to me to be primarily an indication of how long it takes a pitcher to recover from fatigue. If you have a pitcher with a 60 rating and another with a 100 who both go 100 pitches on the same day (say in a doubleheader or 28 inning game), and your league is set for five man rotations, I would expect the 100 endurance pitcher to be rested a day (maybe two days) before the 60 rated pitcher.

Thus, he'd be able to pitch more often because he recovered faster, or he'd be able to pitch longer effectively in any one appearance. I wouldn't neccessarily think he'd be able to pitch longer without raising his risk of hurting himself. He might be able to pitch more innings safely over the course of a season or career because he could pitch safely more often.

As for whether abuse points fade with rest, in game terms I don't know. Pitcher abuse points are something invented by sabrematricians, and the lone article I read about them indicated that they probably last a long time — maybe even for life. The article writer felt that if a pitcher suffered a lot of abuse early in his career, he could expect a short career. He used Mark Prior and his Cubs teammate as examples of pitchers who, years later, are still suffering from the effects of overuse in their first three seasons.

One other thing to think about is a pitcher's injury proneness. You can find this on the 'edit player' page of his player profile, in the lefthand column. He will have several pronenesses listed for several types of injury (many of the numbers will be 0). The higher the total number of the pronenesses, the more likely the player will be injured, regardless of what you do with him. (I had a number one draft pick who injured his throwing hand signing autographs before a game and was out for five months.)

This scale is neither linear nor expotential, but it does run from lowest-is-best to highest-is-worst. I have several pitchers whose totals are in single digits, including a '1' and a '2', and a few who run into three digits, including one who goes over 400. If you're a gambler, abusing pitchers with low proneness is a safer bet than abusing one who raises coyotes (don't ask).

I'm hoping someone else, maybe someone from the beta team, who can speak more authoritatively will chime in on this topic.

05-24-2007, 02:51 AM	#4
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	Okay, now we're getting out of the realm where I know things and into the realm where I believe things, so take all of this as educated guessing only. I believe that if you have pitcher endurance set to 'normal' in league setup, any number of pitches up to 100 shouldn't hurt AS LONG AS the pitcher is 100% rested before his start. If endurance is set to 'below normal' or 'low', I would guess that 90 and 80 pitches (or maybe 95 and 90), respectively, would be your uppermost safe limits. If endurance is set to 'above normal' or 'high' you can probably add 5 (or maybe 10) pitches per appearance to the safe limits per category above 'normal'. For relievers the whole thing gets murkier. My personal policy has been that relievers should be limited to around 20 pitches if their endurance rating is 20 or less, and to whatever their endurance is (32 in your example) if it's above 20. Certainly, your relievers will (or should) dramatically lose effectiveness well before they reach 90 pitches, even if they have very high endurance ratings. Leaving a pitcher in after he loses effectiveness OR after he tells you he's tired during a mound visit is a bad idea. The endurance rating seems to me to be primarily an indication of how long it takes a pitcher to recover from fatigue. If you have a pitcher with a 60 rating and another with a 100 who both go 100 pitches on the same day (say in a doubleheader or 28 inning game), and your league is set for five man rotations, I would expect the 100 endurance pitcher to be rested a day (maybe two days) before the 60 rated pitcher. Thus, he'd be able to pitch more often because he recovered faster, or he'd be able to pitch longer effectively in any one appearance. I wouldn't neccessarily think he'd be able to pitch longer without raising his risk of hurting himself. He might be able to pitch more innings safely over the course of a season or career because he could pitch safely more often. As for whether abuse points fade with rest, in game terms I don't know. Pitcher abuse points are something invented by sabrematricians, and the lone article I read about them indicated that they probably last a long time — maybe even for life. The article writer felt that if a pitcher suffered a lot of abuse early in his career, he could expect a short career. He used Mark Prior and his Cubs teammate as examples of pitchers who, years later, are still suffering from the effects of overuse in their first three seasons. One other thing to think about is a pitcher's injury proneness. You can find this on the 'edit player' page of his player profile, in the lefthand column. He will have several pronenesses listed for several types of injury (many of the numbers will be 0). The higher the total number of the pronenesses, the more likely the player will be injured, regardless of what you do with him. (I had a number one draft pick who injured his throwing hand signing autographs before a game and was out for five months.) This scale is neither linear nor expotential, but it does run from lowest-is-best to highest-is-worst. I have several pitchers whose totals are in single digits, including a '1' and a '2', and a few who run into three digits, including one who goes over 400. If you're a gambler, abusing pitchers with low proneness is a safer bet than abusing one who raises coyotes (don't ask). I'm hoping someone else, maybe someone from the beta team, who can speak more authoritatively will chime in on this topic.