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JCWeb · 12-23-2006, 03:44 AM

Thanks, Ric and Jeff. As 1915 action draws to a close (up to the last month now) I have been inspired to introduce a new feature to this thread -- I call it "champs or chumps." What I propose doing from time to time is comparing how real-life champs fared in this fictional universe versus what they accomplished in real-life. So this first installment will feature the HWs:

Here are the RL HW champs with the dates they won the World Crown in real life versus the dates (if at all) they won the WBA crown in my uni:

John L Sullivan RL: Feb 1882 Uni: Feb. 1882
James Corbett RL: Sep. 1892 Uni: Feb. 1892
Bob Fitzsimmons RL: Mar. 1897 Uni: Apr. 1890
Jim Jeffries RL: Jun. 1899 Uni: Apr. 1902
Marvin Hart RL: Jul. 1905 Uni: Never
Tommy Burns RL: Feb. 1906 Uni: May 1908
Jack Johnson RL: Dec. 1908 Uni: Feb. 1905
Jess Willard RL: Apr. 1915 Uni: Not Yet
Jack Dempsey RL: Jul. 1919 Uni: Too Soon to Tell
Gene Tunney RL: Sep. 1926 Uni: in LHW ranks

Looking at the list, surprised to see how close the dates were for Sullivan and Corbett. Dates were flipped for Fitz and Corbett mainly because in my Uni, Fitz had no MW career to speak of, cleaned up versus the early LHW division, and moved up to HW alot sooner than IRL. He was unbeaten (18-0) as a LHW before stepping up to the heavies in 1886, winning the WBA belt four years later after holding the Commonwealth and British belts for awhile as well. Sullivan did not dominate as IRL, losing and regaining the belt twice. Corbett also lost and regained the belt, but did a bit better than John L. in hanging onto it. Jeffries took longer to reach the top than IRL, as he suffered early losses to Tom Sharkey and Corbett (twice) before hitting his Prime career stage. He won the belt on his third try after a loss and a draw to Corbett, taking the title from (all of people) Bob Armstrong. Jeff then lost the belt to Jack Johnson, five years before their historical real-life encounter of 1910. Burns developed much later than Johnson (he became WBA champ by dethroning Phila Jack O'Brien who had taken the belt from Johnson in a stunning upset).

Marvin Hart has been perhaps the biggest disappointment so far, as he had a miserable 1-9 record in title bouts, holding the USBA belt briefly and finally getting a WBA title shot at Johnson very late in his career, in 1910, when he was already past his prime. The jury is still out, of course, on Jess Willard, who so far has not looked like a future champ, whereas based on what we have seen so far, Dempsey certainly does.

Keep in mind this list does not include the numerous WBA champs in my Uni who were not World Champs in real life, including the likes of Tommy Chandler, George (Old Chocolate) Godfrey, Joe Coburn, the great Peter Jackson, Jimmy Elliot, John C. Heehan, Jake Knifton, Peter Courtney, Dick Matthews, Bob Armstrong, Phila Jack O'Brien (who like Fitz before him, moved up from the LH ranks), and, more recently, the triumvirate of Sam Langford, Joe Jeannette and Sam McVey. All in all, a total of 20 different champions when there were just eight in real-life.

Hope this retrospective has been informative and I plan to post something similar for the other divisions soon.

12-23-2006, 03:44 AM	#184
JCWeb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,100	NEW FEATURE -- Champs or Chumps? Thanks, Ric and Jeff. As 1915 action draws to a close (up to the last month now) I have been inspired to introduce a new feature to this thread -- I call it "champs or chumps." What I propose doing from time to time is comparing how real-life champs fared in this fictional universe versus what they accomplished in real-life. So this first installment will feature the HWs: Here are the RL HW champs with the dates they won the World Crown in real life versus the dates (if at all) they won the WBA crown in my uni: John L Sullivan RL: Feb 1882 Uni: Feb. 1882 James Corbett RL: Sep. 1892 Uni: Feb. 1892 Bob Fitzsimmons RL: Mar. 1897 Uni: Apr. 1890 Jim Jeffries RL: Jun. 1899 Uni: Apr. 1902 Marvin Hart RL: Jul. 1905 Uni: Never Tommy Burns RL: Feb. 1906 Uni: May 1908 Jack Johnson RL: Dec. 1908 Uni: Feb. 1905 Jess Willard RL: Apr. 1915 Uni: Not Yet Jack Dempsey RL: Jul. 1919 Uni: Too Soon to Tell Gene Tunney RL: Sep. 1926 Uni: in LHW ranks Looking at the list, surprised to see how close the dates were for Sullivan and Corbett. Dates were flipped for Fitz and Corbett mainly because in my Uni, Fitz had no MW career to speak of, cleaned up versus the early LHW division, and moved up to HW alot sooner than IRL. He was unbeaten (18-0) as a LHW before stepping up to the heavies in 1886, winning the WBA belt four years later after holding the Commonwealth and British belts for awhile as well. Sullivan did not dominate as IRL, losing and regaining the belt twice. Corbett also lost and regained the belt, but did a bit better than John L. in hanging onto it. Jeffries took longer to reach the top than IRL, as he suffered early losses to Tom Sharkey and Corbett (twice) before hitting his Prime career stage. He won the belt on his third try after a loss and a draw to Corbett, taking the title from (all of people) Bob Armstrong. Jeff then lost the belt to Jack Johnson, five years before their historical real-life encounter of 1910. Burns developed much later than Johnson (he became WBA champ by dethroning Phila Jack O'Brien who had taken the belt from Johnson in a stunning upset). Marvin Hart has been perhaps the biggest disappointment so far, as he had a miserable 1-9 record in title bouts, holding the USBA belt briefly and finally getting a WBA title shot at Johnson very late in his career, in 1910, when he was already past his prime. The jury is still out, of course, on Jess Willard, who so far has not looked like a future champ, whereas based on what we have seen so far, Dempsey certainly does. Keep in mind this list does not include the numerous WBA champs in my Uni who were not World Champs in real life, including the likes of Tommy Chandler, George (Old Chocolate) Godfrey, Joe Coburn, the great Peter Jackson, Jimmy Elliot, John C. Heehan, Jake Knifton, Peter Courtney, Dick Matthews, Bob Armstrong, Phila Jack O'Brien (who like Fitz before him, moved up from the LH ranks), and, more recently, the triumvirate of Sam Langford, Joe Jeannette and Sam McVey. All in all, a total of 20 different champions when there were just eight in real-life. Hope this retrospective has been informative and I plan to post something similar for the other divisions soon.