i voted for the first option. Although, i agree in the current model Endurance plays too big a factor. Endurance only be a factor on an "all things being equal" basis.
If you have two pitchers in the 80/80/80 range and one has Endurance of 85 and the other 55, the one with the 85 should be considered better. But in a solo fictional league i have going i have a 19 year old that pitches like the 2006 version of Roger Clemens. He's rated 100/85/67 but because he has a 49 Endurance he has a 46 Overall Rating.
Meanwhile in the same league there is a pitcher rated 62/76/68. He has good but not great rating and he's nowhere near as good as the Rocket clone. But, because he has a 76, he has a 75 Overall rating.
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Originally Posted by andymac
Exactly, and (if healthy) he could switch back to a starter tomorrow if the Dodgers thought that was best. It would take him some time to get the arm back to being able to throw 6 innings but probably not more than a month or two. Meanwhile his stuff isn't going to be as effective because he has to conserve his arm a bit.
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i agree that pitchers (in most cases) should be able to switch back and forth between starting and relieving. And it should take to time to build, for lack of a better word "arm strength". But i wouldn't want change his stuff/movement/control ratings just because that "arm strength" hadn't built up yet. The only thing that should suffer is his endurance. If a pitcher starts before his arm is properly "stretched out" he loses effectiveness because he's tired.
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Originally Posted by andymac
The pitcher model just isn't very realistic currently. Here is the short version of what I think needs changed.
- 95% of pitchers are created with an endurance rating that would allow them to throw enough pitches to start.
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i agree. In addition each pitcher would have a Relief Pitcher rating which would either be Yes or No. All this says is whether the pitcher's arm can handle the day in day out workload that a reliever has. Most pitchers can handle the reliever role. But some can't. Their arms can't "bounce back".
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Originally Posted by andymac
- Add a "training or betwen game workout" type option that could be adjusted for each pitcher. If a guy is in the rotation, this option would be "starter". If he is a middle reliever it would be "relief". Over time while training for a role, the pitchers' arm fitness would change towards that role. You could even add another rating that determines if and/or how long it takes each pitcher to adjust.
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Went out of order. But instead having that option. Just give the pitcher the position you want him to have; either starter or reliever. Those are the only two positions their are. Pitchers that are starters will automatically workout as starter. And relievers the same. The difference between starter and reliever with respect to readiness to handle a particular role is how often he's pitched in the last five games.
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Originally Posted by andymac
- Add an "arm fitness" rating which is dynamic. The rating determines what role their arm is currently conditioned for.
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All this is the pitcher’s rest status on the current game. But, yes, if you change a pitcher to be a starter, but he threw 20 pitches two days ago and 30 pitches three days ago. This his arm fitness or rest status should be very low and he shouldn’t be starting any time soon. At the same time, if you change a pitcher to be a starter, but he threw 98 two days ago, then his rest status should be very low and he shouldn’t be able to pitch in relief any time soon.
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Originally Posted by andymac
- The stuff rating & velocity of a pitcher should adjust along with his "arm fitness". If he is training to be a reliever, he should be able to throw a bit harder and with more movement because he doesn't have to pace himself, while if he is changing to become a starter his pitches are going to lose some effectivness in order to allow his arm to throw longer. Again, there could be another rating that controls just how much effectivness a pitcher loses/gains by switching roles.
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i disagree with this completely. The pitcher’s ratings should not change because his role changes. And, really this is where fatigue should play a major factor. A starter after so many pitches should gradually fatigue and should rating points that way. A reliever will come in (in most cases) at full strength and never have to lose anything because of fatigue.
i know that pitchers will often times have better statistics, but its not because their stuff is SO much better. It’s the advantage of being in the role. For instance:
- Starters are expected to give teams, at least five innings. So if a starter doesn’t have his best stuff he may have to suffer through five or more innings to save his bullpen or because the bullpen is already tired. If a reliever (with the exception of closers) doesn’t have his best stuff, the manager is gonna’ come get him. A MR can come into a game and walk a batter then gives up a double. The manager can and will get him out and bring another reliever. If the next pitcher comes in and strands the runners, that pitcher’s ERA is 0.00. But a starter is not going to get that type of help until the middle innings.
- Starters have to pitch to everybody in the opposition’s lineup. And they have to do it at least twice. A manager can spot relievers to face only certain batters. A mediocre reliever isn’t gonna’ face Albert Pujols more than once. And, in that instance, he’s probably gonna’ be ordered to walk him, either intentionally or unintentionally. A mediocre reliever will often pitch more often with a platoon advantage. So if you have a mediocre LHP and he’s a starter facing the Cardinals he may have to pitch to Pujols and Rolens with a man on first and second with nobody out in the third inning. But if you take that same mediocre LHP and put him in the bullpen, he’s only gonna’ face LHBs and MAYBE some light hitting RHBs.