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wildhawke11 · 03-18-2006, 10:43 AM

The HW division is the hardest to visualise the smaller guys from years ago completing with the likes of Liston, Frazier, Foreman and the even bigger Lennex Lewis etc etc. I agree that both Marciano and Jack Dempsey might even win against some of the lesser big guys But its a totally different ball game asking Rocky and Jack to step into the ring each and every fight giving so much weight away. Thats why we have varying weight divisions in the first place. It a different kettle of fish again matching the MW fighters from the 30s 40s 50s like LaMotta, Cerdan, Robinson etc etc against the likes of Bernard Hopkins or company where we can at least make an informed guess at the results.

The problem with taking 185 lb fighters like Dempsey etc, and matching them up with fighters that came much later is this. Lets just take Dempsey, i agree Dempsey would probably come in at over 210 lbs or so. But they just would not be the same fighters. What made Dempsey so vicious and hard just like many others fighters from days gone by was the times itself, You had to be hard to even survive in Jacks days. This new later born Jack would not be the Dempsey of the old times.

If your going to give Dempsey the advantages of his hard tough upbringing along with having a weight advantage because he was born later. Then its only fair to give the later fighters in our minds the added asset of them being brought up and having the same hard background and upbringing of the likes of Dempsey and such.

Give Mike Tyson and Lewis the same hard background and having to fight in rundown dives and saloons for just a meal ticket that the likes of Dempsey and company had to do and you would have a totally different much harder Tyson or Lewis facing you. The best of your time is all you can be, the rest is just like our game fantasy boxing. The best bet in the game is to move the likes of Dempsey and Marciano to CW or lower their CF and maybe even their KD and punch power ratings somewhat. To at least reflect the major weight difference between them.

Lets face it the real truth is many times we cant even get todays fights right so what hell in chance have we got of forecasting fighters from years ago fighting against others from another era. Calculated guesses is the best any of us can do. In the lower weight divisions i think we can make a pretty good guess. With the likes of Duran, Robinson, Hagler and so on. But the HWs is so much harder to guess at. Who knows even Frank Bruno who in no way was in Dempsey or Marciano's class but could hit hard might even have hit Rocky or Jack right on the button in round one and game over as they say. i also agree they could have done the same to him.

03-18-2006, 10:43 AM	#18
wildhawke11 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: united kingdom Posts: 1,952	The HW division is the hardest to visualise the smaller guys from years ago completing with the likes of Liston, Frazier, Foreman and the even bigger Lennex Lewis etc etc. I agree that both Marciano and Jack Dempsey might even win against some of the lesser big guys But its a totally different ball game asking Rocky and Jack to step into the ring each and every fight giving so much weight away. Thats why we have varying weight divisions in the first place. It a different kettle of fish again matching the MW fighters from the 30s 40s 50s like LaMotta, Cerdan, Robinson etc etc against the likes of Bernard Hopkins or company where we can at least make an informed guess at the results. The problem with taking 185 lb fighters like Dempsey etc, and matching them up with fighters that came much later is this. Lets just take Dempsey, i agree Dempsey would probably come in at over 210 lbs or so. But they just would not be the same fighters. What made Dempsey so vicious and hard just like many others fighters from days gone by was the times itself, You had to be hard to even survive in Jacks days. This new later born Jack would not be the Dempsey of the old times. If your going to give Dempsey the advantages of his hard tough upbringing along with having a weight advantage because he was born later. Then its only fair to give the later fighters in our minds the added asset of them being brought up and having the same hard background and upbringing of the likes of Dempsey and such. Give Mike Tyson and Lewis the same hard background and having to fight in rundown dives and saloons for just a meal ticket that the likes of Dempsey and company had to do and you would have a totally different much harder Tyson or Lewis facing you. The best of your time is all you can be, the rest is just like our game fantasy boxing. The best bet in the game is to move the likes of Dempsey and Marciano to CW or lower their CF and maybe even their KD and punch power ratings somewhat. To at least reflect the major weight difference between them. Lets face it the real truth is many times we cant even get todays fights right so what hell in chance have we got of forecasting fighters from years ago fighting against others from another era. Calculated guesses is the best any of us can do. In the lower weight divisions i think we can make a pretty good guess. With the likes of Duran, Robinson, Hagler and so on. But the HWs is so much harder to guess at. Who knows even Frank Bruno who in no way was in Dempsey or Marciano's class but could hit hard might even have hit Rocky or Jack right on the button in round one and game over as they say. i also agree they could have done the same to him.