OOTP Developments Forums - View Single Post - Liston vs. Machen. Two very good heavyweights.

wildhawke11 · 03-01-2006, 08:29 PM

I have to say first of all i am sorry that the film bought painful memories back to you my boxing friend. I have a good idea how memories can be painful. Over here in UK the old football fans look back with a sort of pride in the only time England ever won the world cup way back in 1966. For me it has painful memories because the day before the final my 16 year old brother lost his life in a motor bike accident.

As to Liston you hit the nail on the head, he was in his prime more then a little useful as a boxer. In my personal opinion he had one of the hardest and best jabs in the business. His jab was very near equal to any other fighters best punch. Problem of course all that Sonny is remembered for now by the majority is that fight with a young Ali. If Ali had met Liston at his prime and not pretty much past his sell by date, who knows if Clay could have coped with him. In spite of Liston quitting in there first fight people might be surprised to find the scoring if i recall it correct was pretty close at the time. So makes you wonder how a 25% better Liston might have done against the wonder boy Clay. Big George Foreman once sparred a little with an Old Liston and afterwards commented on how hard the old boy could still hit. In fact later on George used to tell people that Liston was the only man who ever made him back up in a ring.

As Sonny got older he was more interested with the women then getting himself in shape for fights and of course this proved to be his undoing in his fight with that rising young star Clay. I would say it would be a 50 - 50 fight with if i was pushed with my bet going for Liston if Liston had been at prime and in shape in there first fight.

I have a video somewhere in the house where a young unbeaten Mike Tyson who at the time was considered by a great many experts would go on to become the greatest HW ever. In the video he is sitting with i forget the commentators name at the moment, but there both watching all the old former champions in action. Anyway in the finish Tyson was asked which out of them would he least have wanted to meet in the ring. Without hesitation he said Sonny Liston. Because he went on to add, how i was going to get past that great powerful jab of his would be a major problem for me. Then he smiled and went on, even if i managed to get inside that jab i now how to come face to face with the rest of the heavy weapons in Listons armoury. To be honest i guess most of Tysons thoughts of course were influenced by the late Cus D'AMato though. But it does give you an idea how Gus himself rated Liston when in shape of course.

In Listons favour as a man when he was earning the money i believe he was one of the few who shown that old great fighter Joe Louis any compassion when Louis pretty much hit skid row. So maybe Sonny as a person was not such a bad guy after all after he mellowed a little. But of course the media loves to play the good guy v the big bad bully and thats how Sonny Liston sad to say will always be remembered.

03-01-2006, 08:29 PM	#2
wildhawke11 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: united kingdom Posts: 1,952	Big Bad Liston ? I have to say first of all i am sorry that the film bought painful memories back to you my boxing friend. I have a good idea how memories can be painful. Over here in UK the old football fans look back with a sort of pride in the only time England ever won the world cup way back in 1966. For me it has painful memories because the day before the final my 16 year old brother lost his life in a motor bike accident. As to Liston you hit the nail on the head, he was in his prime more then a little useful as a boxer. In my personal opinion he had one of the hardest and best jabs in the business. His jab was very near equal to any other fighters best punch. Problem of course all that Sonny is remembered for now by the majority is that fight with a young Ali. If Ali had met Liston at his prime and not pretty much past his sell by date, who knows if Clay could have coped with him. In spite of Liston quitting in there first fight people might be surprised to find the scoring if i recall it correct was pretty close at the time. So makes you wonder how a 25% better Liston might have done against the wonder boy Clay. Big George Foreman once sparred a little with an Old Liston and afterwards commented on how hard the old boy could still hit. In fact later on George used to tell people that Liston was the only man who ever made him back up in a ring. As Sonny got older he was more interested with the women then getting himself in shape for fights and of course this proved to be his undoing in his fight with that rising young star Clay. I would say it would be a 50 - 50 fight with if i was pushed with my bet going for Liston if Liston had been at prime and in shape in there first fight. I have a video somewhere in the house where a young unbeaten Mike Tyson who at the time was considered by a great many experts would go on to become the greatest HW ever. In the video he is sitting with i forget the commentators name at the moment, but there both watching all the old former champions in action. Anyway in the finish Tyson was asked which out of them would he least have wanted to meet in the ring. Without hesitation he said Sonny Liston. Because he went on to add, how i was going to get past that great powerful jab of his would be a major problem for me. Then he smiled and went on, even if i managed to get inside that jab i now how to come face to face with the rest of the heavy weapons in Listons armoury. To be honest i guess most of Tysons thoughts of course were influenced by the late Cus D'AMato though. But it does give you an idea how Gus himself rated Liston when in shape of course. In Listons favour as a man when he was earning the money i believe he was one of the few who shown that old great fighter Joe Louis any compassion when Louis pretty much hit skid row. So maybe Sonny as a person was not such a bad guy after all after he mellowed a little. But of course the media loves to play the good guy v the big bad bully and thats how Sonny Liston sad to say will always be remembered.