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Originally Posted by darkhorse
When two good evaluation tools rate Pedro as being significantly better on peak value and career value, many points worthy of contention would have to be conceded to the Koufax supporters for them to be considered even equals.
I support neither. I'm just searching for a better truth.
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A couple things:
1) I think we're all 'just searching for a better truth.' I know I am.
2) I think pretty much everyone will admit that Pedro's career has more value, since he just pitched more years. They have similar number of innings because of the difference in workload between now and then, but Pedro's career is certainly longer.
3) Two good evaluation tools rate him as better? That would be ERA+ and WARP1? Ok, well, ERA and Win Shares puts Koufax ahead (I believe). There are a ton of "good evaluation tools," but none are absolute, and almost none take in alot of factors, such as diminishing returns.
DH, I don't know if you consider yourself a sabermetrician or not, so let's assume for now you don't, and this is not addressed specifically to you. Same goes with Aadik. Sabermetricians can often be very arrogant, refusing to budge on anything because a complicated formula contains absolute truth. Thr reality though, is that no numbers caa perfectly reflect the physical reality of a baseball game. But sabermetrics over the past few years has started to build cyclical formulas, creating stats and criteria through which players should now be judged. They've fallen into their own hole, saying "baseball is supposed to be played this way, and it produces wins this way, so the quality of players should be judged through my formula which judges my way of conceptualizing a ballgame, and anyone who doesn't fit my formula isn't as good as those who do." But what if I don't buy in to WARP1? What if I think it's garbage? I'm not saying I do, but there are other viewpoints out there.
Ok, done with rant. Again, not aimed at anyone in particular, since I don't know any of you. I like sabermetrics and think it's added a ton to the game. But it isn't everything.
PS: DH, who the hell is that girl in your avatar. I've seen you post hundreds of times and it's always bothered me. Let me sleep peacefully tonight; who is it?