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jdw · 02-27-2005, 06:31 PM

> James Jones is still clearly nowhere near as
> good as those 5.

Actually, Jones *is* as good as those. He's the 9/9 .952 rated 3B. The problem is that his numbers for 1951 didn't crunch well.

Why? I'm not sure. I'd have to bust out the Win Shares book and try to see what factors work against him.

Here are their "raw" numbers:

PO+A / DP / TC / E / PCT / Inn / RngF - Name
63+252 / 29 / 333 / 18 / .946 / 807.1 / 3.51 - Jones
57+256 / 19 / 332 / 19 / .943 / 839.2 / 3.35 - Nunez
109+362 / 25 / 492 / 21 / .957 / 1272.2 / 3.33 - Pursell
95+330 / 30 / 446 / 21 / .953 / 1162.2 / 3.29 - Ayers
74+314 / 29 / 412 / 24 / .942 / 1142.1 / 3.06 - Thomas
99+287 / 25 / 399 / 13 / .967 / 1123.1 / 3.09 - Martneau

Per 1000 IP, here's the successful chances they make (TC-E):

391 - Jones
373 - Nunez
370 - Pursell
366 - Ayers
344 - Martneau
340 - Thomas

He has the highest Assist number - 7 more than Jones, and 27 more than anyone else. Martneau, Nicky and Ayers have 4-10 more PO per 1000 IP. Jones has 36 DP per 1000 IP, while the others are in the 20-26 range. Martneau has the fewest errors with 12, Tito Jr. has the most with 23, while Jones is next with 22.

That is about what one would expect when looking at the RngF and the raw numbers.

Pursell and Jones played behind some strong GB pitchers, and WS has ways of trying to figure out the GB factor of a team. the Reds staff was probably the most extreme GB team in the game, and even moreso this year. The Reds and Giants were also weak K teams, meaning more balls in play. They were low HR allowed teams, again more balls in play.

Being GB teams, Nicky and Jones also played next to good range fielders in the IF:

8-8-9 Goza-Keesaer-Jones
7-7-6 Howard-Roth-Pursell

Those guys "take" a fair number of outs away that on other teams would go through as hits and then cycle through later in the game(s) as TC for Jones and Nicky.

Like I say, I'll have to poke around. Jones is pretty close to the Stuart level of "ratings" for his position. If over the course of the last four years he rated low in WS/1000, it would raise a red flag. That said, I doubt the Ted ever:

* played with in a 2B-SS-3B combo with as high of ratings as the Reds did last year. Ted and Pokey when paired had better ranges than Goza and Keesaer, but Jones laps Moe's range.

* played with quite as extreme of a GB staff as the Reds were last year. He likely would play behind some GB pitchers, but most of his career was pre-Live, and the AI GMs didn't care enough about GB pitchers like the Reds, Phils and Tigers have flashed from time to time in the Live Era.

What's also funny is that Jones' raw numbers in 1951 are the best of his career. It's the lowest PO/1000 he has had, but the A/1000 runs circles around what he's done.

Odd...

02-27-2005, 06:31 PM	#3869
jdw All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,161	> James Jones is still clearly nowhere near as > good as those 5. Actually, Jones is as good as those. He's the 9/9 .952 rated 3B. The problem is that his numbers for 1951 didn't crunch well. Why? I'm not sure. I'd have to bust out the Win Shares book and try to see what factors work against him. Here are their "raw" numbers: PO+A / DP / TC / E / PCT / Inn / RngF - Name 63+252 / 29 / 333 / 18 / .946 / 807.1 / 3.51 - Jones 57+256 / 19 / 332 / 19 / .943 / 839.2 / 3.35 - Nunez 109+362 / 25 / 492 / 21 / .957 / 1272.2 / 3.33 - Pursell 95+330 / 30 / 446 / 21 / .953 / 1162.2 / 3.29 - Ayers 74+314 / 29 / 412 / 24 / .942 / 1142.1 / 3.06 - Thomas 99+287 / 25 / 399 / 13 / .967 / 1123.1 / 3.09 - Martneau Per 1000 IP, here's the successful chances they make (TC-E): 391 - Jones 373 - Nunez 370 - Pursell 366 - Ayers 344 - Martneau 340 - Thomas He has the highest Assist number - 7 more than Jones, and 27 more than anyone else. Martneau, Nicky and Ayers have 4-10 more PO per 1000 IP. Jones has 36 DP per 1000 IP, while the others are in the 20-26 range. Martneau has the fewest errors with 12, Tito Jr. has the most with 23, while Jones is next with 22. That is about what one would expect when looking at the RngF and the raw numbers. Pursell and Jones played behind some strong GB pitchers, and WS has ways of trying to figure out the GB factor of a team. the Reds staff was probably the most extreme GB team in the game, and even moreso this year. The Reds and Giants were also weak K teams, meaning more balls in play. They were low HR allowed teams, again more balls in play. Being GB teams, Nicky and Jones also played next to good range fielders in the IF: 8-8-9 Goza-Keesaer-Jones 7-7-6 Howard-Roth-Pursell Those guys "take" a fair number of outs away that on other teams would go through as hits and then cycle through later in the game(s) as TC for Jones and Nicky. Like I say, I'll have to poke around. Jones is pretty close to the Stuart level of "ratings" for his position. If over the course of the last four years he rated low in WS/1000, it would raise a red flag. That said, I doubt the Ted ever: * played with in a 2B-SS-3B combo with as high of ratings as the Reds did last year. Ted and Pokey when paired had better ranges than Goza and Keesaer, but Jones laps Moe's range. * played with quite as extreme of a GB staff as the Reds were last year. He likely would play behind some GB pitchers, but most of his career was pre-Live, and the AI GMs didn't care enough about GB pitchers like the Reds, Phils and Tigers have flashed from time to time in the Live Era. What's also funny is that Jones' raw numbers in 1951 are the best of his career. It's the lowest PO/1000 he has had, but the A/1000 runs circles around what he's done. Odd...