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Originally Posted by 60'sfan
Jim,
How do you think a prime Rocky would have done against the HW champs that came after him?
Here's my opinion.
Patterson - Rocky in 5
Johansson - Rocky in 3
Liston - A tough one - could go either way. If (a big if) Rocky survives the first 5 rounds, Rocky will win by KO.
Ali - Ali wins by decision.
Frazier - Another tough one. Rocky 60% of the time.
Foreman - Similar to Liston.
Leon Spinks - Rocky in 3
Holmes - Tough match up for Rocky - Holmes by decision.
Mike Spinks - Rocky by decision or late KO
Tyson - Tyson by early KO - there's no way Rocky can win against a prime Tyson.
Douglas - The Douglas who beat Tyson could also beat Rocky. The Douglas who lost to Holyfield wouldn't stand a chance against Rocky.
Holyfield - A great fight - pick em.
Bowe - Bowe by KO
Lewis - Lewis probably by KO but with Lewis's chin, Rocky could get lucky.
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You left out Ken Norton a brief but very capable champ plus Greg Page, Mike Weaver, etc etc...
If played on computer or from a purely physical or stylistic standpoint I might be inclined to agree with most of these assessments.
However.
What makes Marciano special is nothing in his physical arsenal. There were, I believe, fighters who could withstand more punishment and fighters who hit harder. Physically he was incredibly handicapped as a heavyweight and although his reflexes were much faster than people give him credit for he would was not even remotely "slick".
What made Marciano special is that he has to be the most determined fighter to ever fight in the heavyweight division, and perhaps in any division. Here is a man who nearly had his nose ripped from his face and came back to win the next round. Unfortunately the game does not specifically simulate determination.
So while many of these fighters you listed on paper might seem to be able to dominate him, many of them, like Liston and Tyson, had very fragile psyche's. As fearsome as both men were I believe they would have been up against a fighter who was simply not afraid of them.
I also believe "young George Foremen" would fair no better, although "old George" would do far better.
So among the fighters you listed only these guys, fighters of great determination, I think had a chance of beating him...
Mahuhammid Ali
Larry Holmes
Evander Holyfield
Joe frazier
(and perhaps old George but not young George)
I don't even think Buster Douglas, the night he beat Tyson, would have faired well because unlike Tyson Marciano would not have become discouraged from Douglas's defensive mauling. He would have continued to throw punches, and continued to land, espcially to the body and arms that Douglas needed in his attempt to control him.
When it comes to boxing physical dimensions are very important (or they wouldn't have weight classes). However, we see how men like Jack Dempsey and Mike Tyson could overcome much bigger men by being savagely aggressive and having a big punch.
But Marciano was that, and much more.
My two pennies.