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-   -   Easy MLB-32 team league expansion? (https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com//showthread.php?t=236721)

Crowbar 09-17-2013 10:03 AM

Easy MLB-32 team league expansion?
 
After half-watching, half-simulating Season 2013, I thought it was a good time to try out an expansion and pick an expansion team to play.

Boston Red Sox won the 2013 world series 4-0 against Detroit Tigers, for anyone curious. Another reason I wanted to change league structure while expanding it to 32 teams was because of the wildcards, which I don't really like at all.

I had everything figured out, I planned the Brooklyn Bombers and the Indianapolis Wildcats. I created the following league structure:

AL East: Boston, New York (Yankees), Toronto, Cleveland
Al Central: Detroit, Chicago (White Sox), Milwaukee, Minnesota
Al West: Los Angeles, Seattle, Oakland, Colorado
AL South: Texas, Tampa Bay, Kansas City, Baltimore

NL East: Philadelphia, New York (Mets), Pittsburg, Brooklyn
AL Central: St. Louis, Cincinnati, Chicago (cubs), Indianapolis
AL West: Los Angeles, San Francisco, Arizona, San Diego
AL South: Washington, Atlanta, Miami, Houston

Now, I guess some divisions look slightly off in their geography perhaps. I was OK with it mostly, but then the hard part came and I lost orientation and in the long run gave up.

The game automatically creates AAA,AA,etc. But they are all over the place, and I have to manually edit every league up to the rookies to make sense, renaming and replacing everything. I gave up because I couldn't see the forest for the trees. Another point I failed horribly in was I forgot about the Indianapolis Indians and the Brookyln Cyclones, it doesn't make any sense having them part of another organisation while also having MLB Brooklyn and Indianapolis.

I guess I have to start over again, scrap Brooklyn and Indianapolis, they don't make any sense. Anyone feel as frustrated as I have with this?

ThatSeventiesGuy 09-17-2013 10:28 AM

Sounds kinda similar to what I did. I put expansion teams in Buffalo and Indianapolis, and moved the AAA Indians and Bisons to Evansville and Tallahassee, respectively.

It's not too difficult to change cities around. I keep true-to-life minor leagues, so I had to make sure to switch them to cities that wouldn't have other minor league clubs any time soon, but other than that, no worries.

Your divisions don't look that bad at all. Baltimore in the South seems a tiny bit off, but since Washington is in the NL South, it's not too far off. I'd keep 'em as is. Make sure to turn historical off, or it'll foul stuff up when you add non-historical expansion teams.

Crowbar 09-17-2013 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatSeventiesGuy (Post 3573728)
Sounds kinda similar to what I did. I put expansion teams in Buffalo and Indianapolis, and moved the AAA Indians and Bisons to Evansville and Tallahassee, respectively.

It's not too difficult to change cities around. I keep true-to-life minor leagues, so I had to make sure to switch them to cities that wouldn't have other minor league clubs any time soon, but other than that, no worries.

Your divisions don't look that bad at all. Baltimore in the South seems a tiny bit off, but since Washington is in the NL South, it's not too far off. I'd keep 'em as is. Make sure to turn historical off, or it'll foul stuff up when you add non-historical expansion teams.

Ok, yeah, I was starting to get confused. I'll try and do as you said, moving the Indians and Bisons. That'll do the trick.

Only thing that remains is all the other leagues below (AA,A,S A, R), did you find it easy to find good places that don't already have a team and could support such a team?

ThatSeventiesGuy 09-17-2013 11:50 AM

I'm in the mid-to-late 80s. I put AAA American Association teams in Dayton and Grand Rapids (neither of which will have real-life minor league clubs until around the mid-90s), AA Eastern League teams in Worcester and Poughkeepsie, High A California League teams in Sacramento and Needles, Short-season A Northwest League teams in Ogden and Walla Walla, and Rookie teams in Terre Haute, IN and Bloomington, IL.

If those cities won't work - I know Sacramento and Ogden won't in 2013, since they have real teams now - try Canada. Lots of large cities up there with no teams, or only independent league teams. Or even try Latin American cities like San Juan or Havana or someplace a little bit out there like that. Sometimes I go for "biggest city without a minor league team", others just on a whim or whatever. Or towns that used to have a real-life team, but lost it, like Evansville.

If you're starting in 2013 and working forward, it should be even easier, since you don't have to worry about whether a town will have a minor league team in the future or not. After this year, who knows, unless you're Nostradamus or something. :laugh:

Hockey13Playa 09-17-2013 11:54 AM

Nice original post; I'd like to expand to 32 teams also; like your set up 4 divisions per AL/NL and 4 teams in each. Just have to decide on locations! :thumbup1:

ShaneCarson 09-17-2013 12:25 PM

How did the Tigers and Red Sox play in the World Series?

Crowbar 09-17-2013 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatSeventiesGuy (Post 3573757)
....
If you're starting in 2013 and working forward, it should be even easier, since you don't have to worry about whether a town will have a minor league team in the future or not. After this year, who knows, unless you're Nostradamus or something. :laugh:...

Yes, I'm starting in 2013 (quickstart). Thanks for the tips, will work hopefully :).

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaneCarson (Post 3573775)
How did the Tigers and Red Sox play in the World Series?

Boston dominated their division, Tigers did too, but somehow had a giant off-series (however you call it haha) in the World Series. Losing all 4 games in a row is really awful especially if you just mostly dominated the entire season. I didn't really check in detail, but I think some players lost their hot streak and a couple of injuries, mostly in pitching.

BIG17EASY 09-17-2013 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowbar (Post 3573788)
Boston dominated their division, Tigers did too, but somehow had a giant off-series (however you call it haha) in the World Series. Losing all 4 games in a row is really awful especially if you just mostly dominated the entire season. I didn't really check in detail, but I think some players lost their hot streak and a couple of injuries, mostly in pitching.

I think he was asking how two American League teams played in the World Series.

Crowbar 09-17-2013 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatSeventiesGuy (Post 3573757)
I'm in the mid-to-late 80s. I put AAA American Association teams in Dayton and Grand Rapids (neither of which will have real-life minor league clubs until around the mid-90s), AA Eastern League teams in Worcester and Poughkeepsie, High A California League teams in Sacramento and Needles, Short-season A Northwest League teams in Ogden and Walla Walla, and Rookie teams in Terre Haute, IN and Bloomington, IL.

If those cities won't work - I know Sacramento and Ogden won't in 2013, since they have real teams now - try Canada. Lots of large cities up there with no teams, or only independent league teams. Or even try Latin American cities like San Juan or Havana or someplace a little bit out there like that. Sometimes I go for "biggest city without a minor league team", others just on a whim or whatever. Or towns that used to have a real-life team, but lost it, like Evansville.

If you're starting in 2013 and working forward, it should be even easier, since you don't have to worry about whether a town will have a minor league team in the future or not. After this year, who knows, unless you're Nostradamus or something. :laugh:

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY (Post 3573792)
I think he was asking how two American League teams played in the World Series.

I changed the league structure/playoff rules once before a little. That's how that was possible :).

The Wolf 09-17-2013 02:03 PM

I moved Toronto to Charlotte and added teams in Portland and Salt Lake City

The Wolf 09-17-2013 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY (Post 3573792)
I think he was asking how two American League teams played in the World Series.

Think NL. In another five years or so we could have the Astros vs the Dodgers in the World Series. :)

Le Grande Orange 09-17-2013 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowbar (Post 3573737)
Only thing that remains is all the other leagues below (AA,A,S A, R), did you find it easy to find good places that don't already have a team and could support such a team?

One way you could do that is to take a look at the real-life cities which currently support independent league ball clubs. Many of these cities once had affiliated minor league clubs which moved elsewhere. Find the independent league clubs with the best attendance, and then claim those cities back for affiliated ball. :)

Note also there's been a trend in recent years for minor league clubs to be located in the suburbs of major cities.

Hockey13Playa 09-17-2013 02:53 PM

Liking your structure division and 32 team wise I just put together my realignment idea with two expansions

**Note 1: I'm playing as the New York Mets and plan to relocate them to one of the "3 expansion teams". (So one is really a relocate)

**Note 2: Kansas City Royals become an NL team; Houston Astros become an NL team again (All states/cities with 2 teams have 1 in AL and one in NL); Hartford/Providence (not sure which yet) become expansion team 1 in the AL; Portland becomes expansion team 2 in the AL; New York Mets relocate to New Orleans (As of now).

**Note 3: My only gripe with my set-up as of now is Colorado and Arizona. Want to keep most teams as possible in their respective AL or NL. Arizona is more west and south then Colorado; so where ever they go they at somewhat geographically out of place.

Here's how I'm looking; I'm up for changes but wanted to do 3 cities that were on the top 100 metropolitan list in The United States!

MLB 32 Team Set-up:

American League (AL):


North-
Chicago White Sox
Detroit Tigers
Minnesota Twins
Toronto Blue Jays

South-
Baltimore Orioles
New Orleans _____ (Relocation)
Tampa Bay Rays
Texas Rangers

East-
Boston Red Sox
Cleveland Indians
Hartford/Providence _____ (Expansion)
New York Yankees

West-
Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim
Oakland Athletics
Portland ______ (Expansion)
Seattle Mariners


National League (NL):


North-
Chicago Cubs
Kansas City Royals
Milwaukee Brewers
St. Louis Cardinals

South-
Arizona Diamondbacks
Atlanta Braves
Houston Astros
Miami Marlins

East-
Cincinnati Reds
Philadelphia Phillies
Pittsburgh Pirates
Washington Nationals

West-
Colorado Rockies
Los Angeles Dodgers
San Diego Padres
San Francisco Giants

eriqjaffe 09-17-2013 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf (Post 3573827)
Think NL. In another five years or so we could have the Astros vs the Dodgers in the World Series. :)

The Astros already played the White Sox in the World Series.

'94 EXPOS 09-17-2013 04:58 PM

" Make sure to turn historical off, or it'll foul stuff up when you add non-historical expansion teams."

I most often play with the current roster set and then add 2 expansion teams at the start of the game. I do not change many settings. Just curious as to what historical messes up? And is it usually "on" as a default setting?

'94 EXPOS 09-17-2013 05:04 PM

" Make sure to turn historical off, or it'll foul stuff up when you add non-historical expansion teams."

I most often play with the current roster set and then add 2 expansion teams at the start of the game. I do not change many settings. Just curious as to what historical messes up? And is it usually "on" as a default setting?

ThatSeventiesGuy 09-17-2013 05:07 PM

I was doing an 1884-? season, and after 1884, when I wanted to move some teams around, it screwed up all kinds of stuff...lost whole teams and their rosters, and kept saying teams existed that I'd deleted or moved. So, basically, that season was ruined. I also had it lose the Toronto Blue Jays and re-do them as a new expansion team in '86, when I tried to do an expansion draft for Indy and Buffalo. Thankfully, I was able to move all the "old" Jays onto the "new" Jays, so that season was still okay.

I think that kind of thing's why "turn off historical" is a big thing (I think there was even one guy here who had that in his avatar or sig, wasn't there?), unless you want to do a COMPLETELY historical recap...no franchise moves or expansion unless it happened in real life. Granted, that was on OOTP 11, and it was also before I completely knew what I was doing, so maybe that's not as big an issue with 14. I just keep it off out of habit now. Once bitten, twice shy.

I think it may be okay if you don't plan an expansion draft. If you do, turn it off. I think. Can anybody back me up on this? Like I said, my problems were early on before I knew what I was doing completely, so maybe it was just me!

Hockey13Playa 09-17-2013 05:40 PM

So with what was just said ^^^ is this just when playing historical mode?

With my 32 team idea I posted a few posts up I started off present day with 2013 season; just beginning my second season which its now 2014... planned on expanding in most likely 2016.

'94 EXPOS 09-17-2013 09:05 PM

^^^^^
 
Thanks for the update. I will keep that in mind if I play back in history!

I always play from 2013 and expand from there (you can guess what team I bring back to life!) by two teams to 32 and have never had any issues. I found OOTP '13 significantly improved the expansion function. Maybe the historical stuff was tackled then too?

I used to divide the 32 teams in to four divisions each because I can't stand the wild card. Currently, I have two divisions in each league with the top two qualifying for the play-offs (unbalanced schedule).

Building an expansion team never seems to get old for me and this game tops them all.

millhousebc 09-18-2013 09:20 AM

When you expanded to 32 teams, how did you stock the minor leagues for those teams. Auto-fill seems to give those teams a bunch of scrubs. I know Houston is operating with a 12-15 million payroll, but I also find that when you do an expansion draft, the expansion teams select alot of players not ready for the majors. Do your teams go 18-150, or do you bump them up a bit?
I have tried this in the past and notice that it throws the stats out of wack when teams beat up on the expansion teams.

The Game 09-18-2013 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by '94 EXPOS (Post 3573930)
" Make sure to turn historical off, or it'll foul stuff up when you add non-historical expansion teams."

I most often play with the current roster set and then add 2 expansion teams at the start of the game. I do not change many settings. Just curious as to what historical messes up? And is it usually "on" as a default setting?

You dont need to turn this off post 2013. If you have it on prior to that it will move a team back to it's previous location. I tired this back on OOTP 12 by trying to keep Montreal from moving.

Hockey I have uniforms and logos for New Orleans Voodoo and Indianapolis Speed & 500's. Look for Gerhig's Request thread that also has great Voodoo uniforms.

ThatSeventiesGuy 09-18-2013 10:19 AM

Okay, good to know for future reference.

bailey 09-20-2013 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eriqjaffe (Post 3573914)
The Astros already played the White Sox in the World Series.

and the Brewers played the Cardinals, but no two expansion teams have ever met in the World Series.

Crowbar 09-26-2013 02:04 PM

After being distracted by other games, I came back to finish the job with inspiration from this thread's replies. I changed a few things, and am quite happy with it, maybe not the best, but okay :).

http://i44.tinypic.com/34xkqh4.jpg

nyy26wc 09-26-2013 02:23 PM

I'm also planning on having some expansion. I'm considering expanded one of my worlds to 32 teams for 2014. I also hate the wild card and having 8 divisions of 4 lets me get rid of that monstrosity.

I'm also starting a 2nd league where, in order to not have a problem with talent overflow, I plan on expansion from 30 teams in 2013 to 40 teams over the course of a decade. I plan on adding 2 teams for 2014, then 4 to the AL in 2017 and 4 to the NL in 2020. At least that's my tentative plan. I have to run tests to see exactly how things work out before I let the league go live.

My question is the expansion draft. When you went from 30 to 32, how many players did you let each team protect? Did you set any limits on how many players each team can lose?

It just feels to me that limiting teams to protecting 15 players is just too few. Did you change that?

Also, what was the projected W-L records for the expansion teams, in the preseason picks, under whichever expansion draft settings you chose?

ThatSeventiesGuy 09-26-2013 05:04 PM

Looks good! I was planning on a 32-team MLB by 1998, but unfortunately my saved game got fried right after I finished the 1989 World Series... :(

Le Grande Orange 09-26-2013 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyy26wc (Post 3577253)
I'm also planning on having some expansion. I'm considering expanded one of my worlds to 32 teams for 2014. I also hate the wild card and having 8 divisions of 4 lets me get rid of that monstrosity.

Personally, I think 4-team divisions are a bigger monstrosity than the wild card. A 4-team division is fine for the minors, but this is the majors we're talking about. A 4-team division is too small: it doesn't provide enough variety of opponents, it's too easy for one team to dominate, and finding the right balance of games between divisional and non-divisional opponents is problematic.

For me, the perfect division size is 6 teams. Not too large, and not too small. (Unfortunately, 6 does not divide evenly into 32.)

Orioles1966 09-26-2013 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange (Post 3577326)
Personally, I think 4-team divisions are a bigger monstrosity than the wild card. A 4-team division is fine for the minors, but this is the majors we're talking about. A 4-team division is too small: it doesn't provide enough variety of opponents, it's too easy for one team to dominate, and finding the right balance of games between divisional and non-divisional opponents is problematic.

For me, the perfect division size is 6 teams. Not too large, and not too small. (Unfortunately, 6 does not divide evenly into 32.)

Tell that to the NFL.

Le Grande Orange 09-26-2013 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orioles1966 (Post 3577332)
Tell that to the NFL.

The NFL is different. That's football, not baseball. The entire regular season is only 16 games long.

(Interesting side note: if the NFL regular season lasted as long as does MLB's or the NHL's - 26 weeks - even allowing for 4 bye weeks the NFL regular season would be 22 games long. At the NBA regular season length - 24 weeks - the NFL could easily play 20 regular season games.)

Crowbar 09-27-2013 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyy26wc (Post 3577253)
...
My question is the expansion draft. When you went from 30 to 32, how many players did you let each team protect? Did you set any limits on how many players each team can lose?

It just feels to me that limiting teams to protecting 15 players is just too few. Did you change that?

Also, what was the projected W-L records for the expansion teams, in the preseason picks, under whichever expansion draft settings you chose?

I went with 18 protected players in the draft, I got it from another thread:
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...uickstart.html

"2. Set expansion draft for two new teams. I set it at 18 protected, less than three years of service, max players lost at 3. I tried to make it like the MLB Expansion Draft of 1998 that had 15, 18, and 21 protected players in the 1st, second, and third rounds respectively by setting to the average of 18."

About your second question:

Pre-season 2014 prediction in my game after expansion draft
.

http://i40.tinypic.com/33e75w2.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/2s9q4yf.jpg

Current ML standings after 85 games.

http://i42.tinypic.com/33u61y1.jpg

New Jersey Jackals first season team (which I manage):

http://i40.tinypic.com/25svj8k.jpg

I decided to keep the wild card, for now.

nyy26wc 09-28-2013 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange (Post 3577326)
Personally, I think 4-team divisions are a bigger monstrosity than the wild card. A 4-team division is fine for the minors, but this is the majors we're talking about. A 4-team division is too small: it doesn't provide enough variety of opponents, it's too easy for one team to dominate, and finding the right balance of games between divisional and non-divisional opponents is problematic.

For me, the perfect division size is 6 teams. Not too large, and no

I'm not sold on the 4 team divisions either. But, for my new league, it's a stopgap. I'm planning on having 3 rounds of expansion.
2014 season--2 teams added, 32 total, 8 divisions of 4
2017 season--4 teams added, 36 total, AL will have 4 divisions of 5, NL will have 4 divisions of 4
2020 season--4 teams added, 40 total, 8 divisions of 5

'94 EXPOS 10-01-2013 01:47 PM

I only play the game as an expansion team.

I enjoy the look of the 32 team league. I too used to have four divisions in each league. I have since moved to just four divisions of eight teams each. Top two from each division make the play-offs.

I found (for me) that this works best for getting the teams with the best records in to the post-season. It is not perfect but seems to be far better then having eight divisions. Over time in the eight division mode, I often found one division ending up with a .500 or less team going to the play-offs.

I also use the large four division format because it gives a little more semblance to the geographical locations of the teams with-in each division.

Finally, I like it because each division looks old school 1940's, 1950's style when there was the American League and the National League with no divisions!

For me, playing with an expansion team is the most challenging way to go. If playing with a smaller market team and keeping trades with-in reason (no rip offs) it can take quite a while to build a winner. OOTP 14 has made significant AI improvements in relation to roster management (no more 4 star puppies passing through the waiver wire). I currently have the Expos back in Montreal. I am at the end of year 3 and looking at another 60-70 win season. Some of my 'great' moves I made have not panned out which has really pissed me off and is why I love this game. Year 5 is when I expect to contend.

Fiendfyre 10-22-2017 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf (Post 3573827)
Think NL. In another five years or so we could have the Astros vs the Dodgers in the World Series. :)

Just looking at old posts for expansion ideas, and I see this. Are you a wizard?

eck.nicholas 04-01-2018 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf (Post 3573827)
Think NL. In another five years or so we could have the Astros vs the Dodgers in the World Series. :)



I hope you see this... You were very close... Four years for the Dodgers and Astros WS.


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