Is something really wrong with Play Game feature?
 

I'm in late august, some 125 games into the season on my Nats team who is 86-39, and I have yet to win a single game that I "played". I probably have 25 of those 39 losses. No joke I have not won a SINGLE game that I have taken the reins. Is something wrong?


I played the games all the time in ootp19 and got a realistic experience for the most part. Now literally no matter what I do if I try to play a game it's a loss, automatically. Is my game bugged?


I specifically bought 20 because they said they improved the 3d animations, and I basically have to completely ignore the "play game" feature because it's always a loss and I don't want to put my team into that much of a hole.


Anyone else have any other similar experience? My team is fine, obviously based on the record, when I auto-sim, but as soon as I play it's game over before it starts. They're usually out to a 5-7 run lead before the 3rd inning every time. I'm frustrated.


I don't want to abandon what I consider a critical part of the game because of this nonsense.

There's no easy way to say this. This is a ridiculous post. The "play" engine is the same as the "sim" engine, as has been noted by Markus & Co. numerous times. You MIGHT have a point if you said that you played out every single game...and lost them all. But even then...that could also be reflective of your team and/or your managing style. What's to say you aren't overexerting your starters and blowing leads because you leave them in too long (just as an example)?

If you're 86-39, something's gotta give. You shouldn't be expecting to go 162-0. This isn't MLB Slugfest.

Nope. Its been great other than the crash auto save feature that was added which makes the game not stick and leave off where it was left.

I'm nowhere near expecting 162-0. That would be downright idiotic. My current pace is 111 wins. Higher than normal? Absolutely. High enough for a response with your tone? No.


It is a legitimate question. 0-25 is almost not possible.


Stretching out starters too far? Did you see where I said down by 5-7 runs in the THIRD INNING? They're at maybe 50-60 pitches by then. And I can't be blowing leads because I've NEVER HAD ONE. Every one of my "played games" the opposing team, regardless of who they are, hit 2-3 HR and score 3-5 runs in the first inning. I might come back to tie it in the 5th or 6th, but they always go ballistic on offense.


With Scherzer, Corbin, Strasburg as 3 of my top 5 my experience makes no rational sense. I usually like to play the first game of every series to get a feel for teams, but as I said I'm avoiding playing games at all now because it's an automatic loss.

I've played and watched a ton of games. I lose close ones, lose where I get blown out, win close ones, win where I blow out the other team. There are also stretches of said games above where they seem to happen more often then not. Just like in real life.

I think the OP is correct and something is seriously wrong. Have you started a different league and experienced the same thing there? Do you have any specific settings outside the defaults? (No idea what settings might cause 0-25, I will admit.)


I think that launching a new game and see if you get similar results would be worth a try. 25 games certainly goes beyond a small sample size.

I don't know if it affects it or not but it is an import from OOTP19. I could simply try to start the same franchise again within 20 and see if it's any better. Maybe something didn't import properly?

I have played every game from Opening Day through the end of August and I am 30 games over .500 with my team, the 2016 Cubs.

It really is a tiny sample size...
 

That is less than 1% of all the games played in a regular season. How is that going beyond a small sample size? Using that logic the Seattle Mariners should have won the World Series going 13-2, I mean how could they not getting off to that improbably hot start, right :rolleyes:?
Just a little attempt at humor there lol, apologies. But 25 games may seem like allot but it really isn't.

After 33 games I finally got a win. Not sure if it was blind luck or what. I didn't do anything differently.

Haven't seen any issues with "play game" myself.

It has been a while since I took a stats class, but I from the OP, he has manually played 25% of the teams games for the bulk of a season, the team is winning 86% of games he doesn't touch and is 0-25 when he plats them (since become 1-32, from his previous post.)

That is not a 7 game series, or a week of play, that is a major chunk of games. If the difference was minor, even playing .500 with him and .860 without him, that could be seen as more of a fluke, but I think 0-25 is a big enough chunk that I would try one of the steps I mentioned.

A streak of 0-25 is very improbably. A team that wins even 30% of it's games only has a 1 in 10,000 shot at such a streak. The odds of losing a single game for a 30% win team is 70%, and 0.7^24 is .0001.

cool, but didn't you forget the hypotenuse of the quadratic equation :confused:
:rolleyes::p

Unless I am completely misunderstanding though (always a possibility), the OP's essential question here is whether there is something inherently amiss with the game that leads to different (bad, in his case) outcomes when you play games out in 3D rather than just simming games.

And given that nobody is rushing in to say, yes, this is happening to me too!, and many (including me, though I'm just saying it now) experience more or less reasonable, expected general outcomes when playing out games, I trust that the answer is, no, something is not really wrong with the play game feature.

Now, that is very different from saying that nothing is wrong in the OP's saved game where this is occurring. It certainly sounds like something might be corrupted in some way. Though honestly I can't imagine what would cause this kind of discrepancy between 3D game play and simmed game results. So, statistical long-shot or not, this could still just be a statistical anomaly. (After all, someone does win big in the lottery occasionally, no matter how long the odds are.)

This is my guess. It seems unfathomable that a corrupted file could cause this. My first thought is that this is just ridiculously terrible luck. However, if it gets to 50+ games and I have less than 3 or 4 wins in that span I'm going to contact tech support. 3-47 or 5-45 seem statistically equivalent to being struck by lightning...twice...in a row...on a Tuesday...in March... just after dinner...before the in-laws come over to stay for a week.

Yeah, I totally hear this.
Ridiculously terrible luck sounds like absolutely the right wording for this, if that is indeed what is happening here.

Is your keyboard ok? Are you trying to bunt every time? :laugh:

That's it! You figured it out!






















JK
It's my pitchers that get shelled. Hitting seems normal.

That is the probability for a single team.


Now consider the installed base of the game, and every team in each game. Now consider the number of seasons simmed. The chances of a 0-25 streak become much, much larger- to the point that it is likely to happen. The only question at that point is whether the player comes here to inform us of the streak.

.

You're forgetting one major difference between a simmed game and the 3D gameplay -- the human manager. I don't mean to point a finger at the OP and call him/her a bad manager, but that's the variable that exists. Whether or not that's what's causing the OP's experience, I can't say. But that is a very important variable.

Well, it wasn't really so much that I was forgetting it but rather that I chose not to factor it in. Mostly because I am skeptical that a manager, IRL or in OOTP, has enough power to affect the outcomes of a series of games this significantly.
But also because it wasn't clear to me just how much he was managing in game. I, for instance, play out all of my games for my team (in my primary fictional save) but I let most decision making reside with the AI while all I control is in-game substitutions (though I also control all lineup decisions pre-game as well.) Now in his original post he did refer to taking over the reins, so it could probably be assumed that he does more in-game managing than I choose to do. But I chose not to make that assumption. :)

Well, my response would be to say that is what makes the human manager such an important variable. We can influence the game in any number of ways, and how the OP chooses to do so will determine how important that variable is.

And I would also point out that he/she doesn't have to be so bad as to be the cause of 25 straight losses. Some of the losses may have simply been because the other team played better.

Thanks for the benefit of the doubt. I must concede I am the common denominator. That said, I have played OOTP for close to a decade and have never had results like this before, and I've managed some terrible teams (Padres, Marlins franchises, even the White Sox). This current team is a team that weekly dominates the power rankings, and the only real subs I make are pitching substitutions and an occasional pinch runner for a pitcher/catcher if I'm behind. I wouldn't even post if I truly believed I was behind the anomaly.


Besides how much mismanagement can possibly be involved when the first batter of the game you hit the "pitch" button, and the batter unloads a leadoff homer. Next batter, "pitch">> HR, next batter> "pitch" double, etc...until you're down by 8 runs in the first inning and finally decide to warm up a long reliever for the umpteenth game in a row because my all-star starters who are front runners for Cy Young and first-ballot All-Stars can't last a single played inning but have no problems whenever I sim the games?

My post was because of all of the games (the count is 41 now with 2 wins) the computer gets the lead in the first or second inning in 90% of them. And not just A lead, but gigantic ones.


That's not my decision making. That's something in the game.

EDIT: I just started a game and the FIRST THREE PITCHES are HR's by the other team. This is too much.
I'm opening a ticket.

I hate to be "that guy," but I'd like to see box scores and play-by-play as proof of evidence that your team is losing in that manner. Otherwise, it smells like a lot of hyperbole to me.

The last game I know for a fact is the most recent. However, I got so pissed after giving up the HRS in the first inning I auto-simmed the rest of the game so I only played 5 or 6 batters. I'll post this game in here. I am not going to post 45 box scores. Ive already put ridiculous amounts of work trying to figure this issue out. I'm not about to spend 5 hours meticulously going through my box scores to prove it to people online. Believe me or not. Your choice. I don't blame you for being skeptical, but trust me it's frustrating as all hell losing constantly through no fault in my own.



Aside from that I wasn't recording dates. I was only counting games. If the devs request the box scores in my ticket I will eventually get them and I'll keep them in a folder and post them here. Until then this will have to do:

This is basically a carbon copy of my first inning in every play game. This is actually one of the BEST first innings I've had in a while. ONLY 2 HRs lol

Understood. I guess I was giving him the benefit of the doubt on this. :D

It does sound like terrible luck. Even a poor manager would have a better record than this unless they are doing something silly like someone mentioned bunting with every batter, etc., which I do not believe is the case here. I can not imagine it being a corrupted file causing this. I would be tempted to play out all my games for a year to see what my record is and to compare my players stats to their ratings at the end of the year.

Although from a scientific standpoint this is the most reasonable way to determine possible causes, I'm not so sure my temperament can handle it right now lol. Winning 2 in 45 games has made me almost throw my computer out the window, which isn't good. I play the game for fun. And it isn't fun. I really don't want it to feel like work...


I get enough of that...at work :P

Been reading this thread since you started it but haven't taken the time to comment seeing you getting a lot of good responses.

My take is it's an anomaly that is going against your team. I play out all of my games and in v18 I had a 44 game winning streak, what are the odds? Don't know how many I won with improbable comebacks. Error, wild pitch, single to tie it in the bottom of the 9th and go on to win in the 15th. Or maybe a run balked in for a win. Comebacks from 7-0 deficits etc. etc. etc. If I lost 44 in a row this way I'd pull out my hair :D But if I can win 44 in a row why can't I lose 44 in a row?

FWIW there is only one engine that both played out and simulated games use. Only difference is human input. In your post I quoted you say you hit "pitch" for each batter.

Do you ever hit pitch around when the batter has a history of hitting your pitcher hard?

Do you pitch around when you have a high control\ low stuff P on the mound pitching to a high contact\low eye batter and try to get him to chase?

Do you use mound visits to try to break the momentum?

Playing out my games I think these are things I think I need to do to maximize my chance of winning. I'm sure 90% of the time I just hit pitch too but there are a lot of situations where I don't. Can't say for sure mound visits do much but they sure can't hurt.

Just throwing out some ideas.... :)

It’s likely a small consolation, if any, but one of the people who has often remarked what a difficult time they have doing well in the game is Markus. So even being the creator of the game has no doubt left him baffled at the results of his personal interventions.

I'm willing to try anything but mound visit in the first inning after 3 pitches? Even in a blowout that seems extreme. Nonetheless ill try it.

Hey, whatever it takes :D Mound visits, I think, have a small chance of settling a P but like real life who knows?

The batter\pitcher match too me is what to keep an eye on.

example if I have a P that is 4-4-8 stuff-movement-control(on the 2-8 scale) and he is facing a batter that is 7-5-2 (contact-power-eye) I'm thinking of using pitch around and see if I can get him to chase or hit a ball on the edge of the zone weakly. Anything over the plate and his 7 contact is a real danger against my 4 stuff.

That can be reversed: P with 8-8-4 vs B with 4-3-8 and I may pitch him to contact figuring even if he hits it he's not going to hit it hard. But with that 8 eye he's a danger to walk.

Then there's the batter that has a history of pounding your P. He's a pitch around candidate in certain situations.

I look at it as, who do I want to challenge, and who do I want to make sure doesn't beat me.

... sorry if this has already been asked... have you checked game modifiers to see if anything is way off, e.g. HR totals? I wonder something has happened to inflate those numbers. Even then, though, strange results would carry through to simmed games.

Have you ever played out 7 or 8 games consecutively? Losing streaks of more than 7 games are rare even for weaker teams.

Just FYI I did an import of my 19 save into 20 and I am not having a similar problem. I play out all my games. Admittedly I'm 20 games out of first at the all star break but that's all my fault, not the game's :)

they should be on whatever the default setting is. And again, I never had problems with it in any previous iteration of the game.


The most of I've done consecutively is 5 games because I started getting really pissed and my team needed a win so I simmed and they won 4/5 after I lost 5 straight playing.

It really sounds like you just have bad pitching. You can score, on average, ten runs a game. But if you give up, on average, 12 runs a game, you’re not winning many games.


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The thread should actually read "is anything really wrong with pitching in play games?". My hitting seems mostly normal. Ill check my FIPs and ERA+ later when i log in. IIRC the only pitcher having problems for me when simming is Joe Ross. My other 4 kick butt when simming but all 5 get destroyed when "playing"

EDIT: it would be nice to have a way to separate the splits based on played games versus simmed games so i could show it. It would show about a 7-8FIP and 40ERA+ when Im playing and 3-4 FIP and 100-115 ERA+ in simmed games. Its really blowing my mind at this point.

I should point out that I play out all my games. I’m currently around 19-13 for the season in my current MLB save.

Also: do you only use “Pitch”, or do you use “Pitch Around” when situations call for it?



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I played 162 games using 1-pitch mode with the 2016 Cubs and went 106-56 and had the best starting pitching in the league.

I still think the point isn't getting across. Yes. I use pitch around "when the situation calls for it". However, my struggles are in the 1st inning almost every time.Maybe twice it happened in later innings. I mean it's like 4 batters in and I'm down by 3. There's no room for pitching around when teams regularly go back-to-back-to-back in the first inning.
You have to pitch to someone eventually.

So now its an issue with the 1st innings?

Seconded. How did this go from “playing out games” to “my hitting is good but my pitching sucks” to “I’m behind before people have even gotten their first beers”?


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To be fair, this is not the first mention by the OP of the first inning issues and that his team seems to be playing from behind (largely due to first inning long ball problems) from very early in most every game.

I have no idea what is happening here and I certainly don't think that it is a reflection of any issue with the game engine but I do have great sympathy for what the OP is going through and I see no reason to question his veracity or his intentions. (Or even his management skills, for that matter.) (Sorry for the repeated use of he- clearly making an assumption about gender here but haven't been corrected yet, so likely a correct assumption.)

Good job there, Bird, putting all the pieces together, at least the best available to us.

If the issue is deemed worthy by the OP or by those of us lending an ear, we're going to need more and detailed information, if not a dissection of game logs and keyboard practices. That's to say we won't be getting to the bottom of this any time soon is my guess. If we do get more details and determine what questions are the better ones to gather that, we still need to acknowledge- or better yet the OP does -that this is a relatively isolated report. Thus, probably not the engine, eh? So....what's up OP? how deeply do you want to dive into this? There's a good many parts to collect. :unsure:

Sorry, I'm just getting caught up as I haven't been online since I asked for box scores and play-by-play. I certainly understand that you don't want to take the time to post the box and play-by-play for every game you lost. That would be ludicrous. But based on this one screenshot and the subsequent posts since then, I'll say this ...

1. This one inning isn't as bad as what you're saying happens every time. Yes, a pair of solo home runs is unfortunate, but you're not out of the game after one inning.

2. It happened with a pitcher who gives up a decent amount of home runs (25 per season over the past six years) against a lineup that hits a lot of home runs.

3. You admit you simmed the remainder of the game, so this example doesn't even fit your narrative of "I've lost 25 straight games I've played out."

4. You've changed your story in the past three days from "something's wrong with the game when I play out a game" to "something's wrong with pitching when I play out a game" to "something's wrong with pitching when I play out the first inning."

So, I'm sorry, but yes, I'm skeptical of your claims.

EDIT TO ADD: Legitimate question - Are you simming a lot of these games once you fall behind? If you are, then perhaps there is an issue when a user starts a game and plays some of it, then sims the rest. Now, obviously the results are going to skew toward a bad record because you'd be behind every time when you hit the sim button, but still, I'd think chances are the team would rally to win a couple of times.

Yes I'm simming once i get behind 5 or 6 runs usually. The problem is when Im playing. As soon as I sim out the game my pitchers actually pitch. When Im playing its batting practice even with Scherzer Strasburg and Corbin.

Please don't quote someone if you're not actually quoting them. I never said i "played OUT". I said if I play AT ALL. That includes games that i started to play and simmed because there was no chance to come back.

As soon as the sim starts the team plays like they should. In other words the game can't know Im not going to play through when it starts behaving this way. Im pretty sure darn near every HR my starters have given up was when I was playing in innings 1-3.

To the other poster, yes I am a he.

Also, of course the story is narrowing down to the problem. I posted to figure out the problem. Through the posts here I am learning the specifics of the issue as well. As my frustration mounts I play less of the games as soon as I see the same thing happening again being down anywhere from 2-0 to 7-0 in the first inning. Its helping me learn that as soon as I sim "out" the game my team plays like it wants to win regardless of situation or inning.
When I first posted I did play most, if not all, of the aforementioned games.

Thank you to everyone helping and giving their 2 cents. Its making my ticket easier to report to the devs.

Just be aware if you file a ticket that Markus and/or Matt are going to want you to zip your league file and send it to them using the ftp page so they can see if they can replicate the problem. I hope they can let you and us know what they find

If it gets resolved or solved I will certainly keep updating :)