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-   -   To The Wolf: How I learned to stop worrying and love stats only (https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com//showthread.php?t=234892)

Roy Tucker 07-30-2013 05:41 PM

To The Wolf: How I learned to stop worrying and love stats only
 
I have been an on again off again ootp player since the very first version was announced on usenet. I never really could get into the game even though I desperately wanted to and I couldn't figure out why.

I have been a long time lurker on the forums for several years and after reading thread after thread about stats only, I figured why not? Maybe this is the mode that will finally get me into the game. Did it ever!

Unbeknownst to me at the time, looking at ratings was actually killing immersion. I was so hung up on looking for 8's, 9's and 10's in different categories, that I lost track of actually looking at stats to see if a player was a fit for my team. For me (and I know this doesn't go for everyone), pouring over all the stats for each player to see if he's a good fit or if he's for real helps me connect to my league much more than ratings. I would so often get caught up in the fact that a player wasn't performing up to his rating that it was killing my enjoyment of the game and it was making things harder for me because I would insist on getting a highly rated player even if he had historically underachieved. Now, that thought can't even cross my mind. If a player has bad stats across the board for his career, I am not even tempted.

In my first year stats only, I made the playoffs. I will be interested to see how it impacts my draft. I have not done feeder leagues. I am just doing straight minors and going by scouts. To me this is fine because I know for every Frank Thomas in the first round there are several more Scott Ruffcorns and with that I am off to play another season. Thanks Wolf!

The Wolf 07-30-2013 06:14 PM

You're welcome.

Stats only is not for everyone, but it sure makes the game feel much more fun and realistic to me.

The Wolf 07-30-2013 06:16 PM

I do recommend feeders though. I have found that having four years of stats available makes for a much better draft experience for me.

Matt Arnold 07-30-2013 06:17 PM

Definitely like stats only. My only "cheats" are that I still use ratings for defense and peripherals (I don't want to pour through defensive stats), and I still use star ratings (Very good "at a glance" proxy).

I do still lean a little too much on the stars in certain cases, but I still get a solid immersion, and I do have to rely on stats (and scouting reports) instead of looking are bare numbers.

slugga27 07-30-2013 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UWHabs (Post 3546481)
Definitely like stats only. My only "cheats" are that I still use ratings for defense and peripherals (I don't want to pour through defensive stats), and I still use star ratings (Very good "at a glance" proxy).

I do still lean a little too much on the stars in certain cases, but I still get a solid immersion, and I do have to rely on stats (and scouting reports) instead of looking are bare numbers.

Hey Wolf...quick question. What AI eval settings do you use?

Padreman 07-30-2013 06:22 PM

To everyone else besides the Wolf stop posting replys in here this love letter was directed to The Wolf and Wolf ONLY. Please leave.:p

The Wolf 07-30-2013 06:48 PM

Ratings to 0, of course. I'm running three SO leagues with different year value settings, trying to see which one makes the AI most competitive: 50-33-17, 60-25-15, and 67-22-11. So far 50-33-17 appears to be winning.

The Wolf 07-30-2013 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Padreman (Post 3546484)
To everyone else besides the Wolf stop posting replys in here this love letter was directed to The Wolf and Wolf ONLY. Please leave.:p

No way! Let's talk stats only!

mpejkrm 07-30-2013 07:01 PM

As wolf has said maybe a million times, stats only isn't for everybody (i don't like it, for one). But i'm glad you found a way to play the game that you like. That's what is great about OOTP, you can play it and customize it however you want. That's what puts it ahead of Football Manager and Baseball Mogul for me.

NateAndStuff 07-30-2013 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf (Post 3546480)
I do recommend feeders though. I have found that having four years of stats available makes for a much better draft experience for me.

So you just draft based on feeder league stats? Is there anything else you consider? It seems like a lot of amateurs can do really well in HS or college and are ignored by the CPU/amount to nothing as prospects.

The Wolf 07-30-2013 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NateAndStuff (Post 3546503)
So you just draft based on feeder league stats? Is there anything else you consider? It seems like a lot of amateurs can do really well in HS or college and are ignored by the CPU/amount to nothing as prospects.

Scouts and stats.

Neolithic 07-30-2013 09:32 PM

Wolf, or anyone for that matter, I have a question.

Is there a way, to show the league averages for stats? Currently I'm just sorta basing my projections on real life MLB averages for lots of sabermetrics.

Please tell me there is some way to display this, and if there isn't, can we start a petition to get them to add it :P (preferable before OOTP 15, maybe a last second 14.4 Beta addition, I have cookies....and I'm not afraid to mail them to Europe)

Antonin 07-30-2013 09:57 PM

One thing I wish the game would do for those who want to play stats-only is put something in the player profile where ratings would be. I don't have OOTP14, but for previous versions, having all that empty space where ratings would be looks very strange.

Playing with stats only makes sense, and I could grow to love playing that way, if only the player profile didn't look so strange.

Just my 2 cents.

nyy26wc 07-30-2013 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf (Post 3546488)
Ratings to 0, of course. I'm running three SO leagues with different year value settings, trying to see which one makes the AI most competitive: 50-33-17, 60-25-15, and 67-22-11. So far 50-33-17 appears to be winning.

I'm considering also making the conversion, but have some questions.

If ratings are set to 0, does that mean that the AI also puts 0 weight on a player's potential? Wouldn't that mean that, in trade talks, the AI would grossly undervalue prospects?

Also, when it comes to those values, I assume that, when you pass January 1, but it's still the offseason or the preseason, "current year" shouldn't be taken literally and it still means the most recently completed full season. But, what happens when the season starts and everyone's current year stats are all just small sample sizes? Does that present any problems with the AI's player evaluations?

Fyrestorm3 07-30-2013 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyy26wc (Post 3546558)
If ratings are set to 0, does that mean that the AI also puts 0 weight on a player's potential? Wouldn't that mean that, in trade talks, the AI would grossly undervalue prospects?

No. The AI has access to a player's ratings for players with few to no stats. I do not profess to know exactly what it takes into account, but trust me, prospects are valued the same as always.

bk2bkjks 07-30-2013 11:01 PM

I too have been a stats only for about 3 version now and agree with the OP that I was only focusing on rating numbers. I was using 20-80 at the time and would just look at potential ratings and and current.

I have always used feeder leagues and like having 4 years worth of stats to look at my potential pick. My only gripe would be the guy has hit .400 for 4 years but the scout says he has a snowballs chance in hell to be a Major Leaguer. :rolleyes:

The only thing I need to do now is find a way to look past coach's ratings. Signing excellent and legendary coaches and scouts seems too easy......any suggestions in this area would be appreciated.

Wolf didn't steer me to stats only but I do believe he has answered some questions for me in the past and for that I'll raise my glass to a fellow stats brother :thumbup1:

Raidergoo 07-30-2013 11:21 PM

Hey, Roy...don't be a stranger!

The Wolf 07-31-2013 01:11 AM

I have no idea who came up with the idea of stats only, I only know it wasn't me. SO was kicked around for a long time and it didn't become practical until we got feeder leagues that really worked. Now it rocks.

cody8200 07-31-2013 09:14 AM

The only thing that kills it for me is that you can't tell when a player loses his ability suddenly before making a big signing in the offseason. Or after an injury. If there was some text dialog to help the stats only GM understand when a player is in for a decline, I would be on board. In real life you could just see the decline coming based on his pitch speed going down or looking bad at batting practice. Not the case in OOTP.

Orcin 07-31-2013 09:50 AM

The thing that kills stats only for me is that it is not realistic.

In real life, GMs have stats and scouts. Sometimes, they say opposite things. Part of the skill is sorting that contrary information and weighing which one is right.

Eliminating one source of information is like playing a PGA event without walking the course or knowing the pin placements. No one would do it.


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