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-   -   Player Speed Ratings (https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com//showthread.php?t=305266)

Mannyw 07-16-2019 10:25 PM

Player Speed Ratings
 
I think OOTP nails almost all ratings but I think the running speed ratings are off. I often see players I know are fast with speed numbers down in the 20-30s.

I've even went to https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sprin...=&team=&min=10 confirm my thoughts and this website shows players sprint speeds from Statcast. The speed rating a often very off.

This said, can a new way of evaluate palyer speed be considered by the developers perhaps?

Thanks.

Sharkn20 07-17-2019 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mannyw (Post 4515891)
I think OOTP nails almost all ratings but I think the running speed ratings are off. I often see players I know are fast with speed numbers down in the 20-30s.



I've even went to https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sprin...=&team=&min=10 confirm my thoughts and this website shows players sprint speeds from Statcast. The speed rating a often very off.



This said, can a new way of evaluate palyer speed be considered by the developers perhaps?



Thanks.

Speed in game is coded offensively as stealing attempts, nothing to do with how fast they can actually run.

I think is baserunning what might be misleading you?

I don't know yet what Speed does in defense.

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Pirates 07-17-2019 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharkn20 (Post 4515997)
Speed in game is coded offensively as stealing attempts, nothing to do with how fast they can actually run.

I think is baserunning what might be misleading you?

I don't know yet what Speed does in defense.

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Then what does the rating STEALING mean?

Syd Thrift 07-17-2019 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirates (Post 4516022)
Then what does the rating STEALING mean?

It translates into success rates on steals. For instance, there were seasons where Ichiro may not have been the fastest person in the league by steal attempts but almost certainly had the highest Stealing rating equivalent (for example, 2008, when he was 43/47).

Pirates 07-17-2019 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift (Post 4516027)
It translates into success rates on steals. For instance, there were seasons where Ichiro may not have been the fastest person in the league by steal attempts but almost certainly had the highest Stealing rating equivalent (for example, 2008, when he was 43/47).

Thank you. I could never figure that out.

Argonaut 07-17-2019 12:26 PM

I also believe that Speed has an affect on.. well.. speed. Legging out grounders to first, avoiding double plays.. things like that. I know that it affects turning doubles into triples, unless that player has a specific triples rating. At least I hope Speed affects more than base stealing attempts.

Sharkn20 07-17-2019 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argonaut (Post 4516042)
I also believe that Speed has an affect on.. well.. speed. Legging out grounders to first, avoiding double plays.. things like that. I know that it affects turning doubles into triples, unless that player has a specific triples rating. At least I hope Speed affects more than base stealing attempts.

I would be glad to see some statiscal evidence of this in-game

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Argonaut 07-17-2019 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharkn20 (Post 4516055)
I would be glad to see some statiscal evidence of this in-game

In Perfect Team, I have a team designed around Speed. They routinely put up about +30 BsR, which translates to about 3 wins because of the team's superior Stealing, Speed, and Baserunning ability. This includes grounding into double plays and other factors.

Whether I'm sacrificing more or less than 3 wins by not having slower players that hit better, I can't say. But the PT engine is the same as the OOTP engine so I assume Speed adds value here too.

Pirates 07-17-2019 02:01 PM

I have asked about speed and what it actually means many times.

It would be nice if someone from OOTP actually answered that question.
I don't think that is asking too much.

ohiodevil 07-17-2019 02:27 PM

This is directly from the manual

Quote:

Running Speed

Running Speed is a measure of how quickly a player can run from one base to the next. Players with a high rating in Running Speed are more of a threat to steal bases, and are more likely to advance further on a ball in play. Running Speed is strictly for offensive play. For example, Running Speed does not factor into an outfielder's range. However, Running Speed and Defensive Range are linked internally. For example, as a player ages, his speed and range will generally decline at the same pace.
http://manuals.ootpdevelopments.com/...=other_ratings

Pirates 07-17-2019 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohiodevil (Post 4516087)

OK, then what is baserunning?

Plus I have seen Willie Mays in the early 60's have a dismal running speed.
I saw Willie Mays play in person.
He was not slow or average.

Reed 07-17-2019 02:42 PM

Baserunning, again from the manual, is a measure of a players instincts when running the bases. Players with a high rating are more likely to take advantage of fielder miscues to advance, and less likely to get thrown out due to baserunning mistakes.
I think a slow runner can have good base running instincts.

Pirates 07-17-2019 02:47 PM

The problem here is this:
I have seen many fast baseball players who did not steal a lot of bases, have an abysmal running speed.

This is factually incorrect.

Reed 07-17-2019 03:48 PM

It sounds like your definition of running speed is different than the developers definition. The developers could use a different choice of words like, “threat of stealing”, or something like that.
Of course Willie Mays, along with Mickey Mantle, were very fast but their role on their teams like you said for Mays in the 60s was not to steal bases. Since they were not a threat to steal, their threat rating (called running speed by the developers) is not as high as some other players.
If they actually do try to steal a base, then that result will be based on their stealing base rating. How often the try to steal will be based on their speed rating, if the team is controlled by the AI.
At least that is how I understand it.

Argonaut 07-17-2019 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reed (Post 4516122)
It sounds like your definition of running speed is different than the developers definition. The developers could use a different choice of words like, “threat of stealing”, or something like that.
Of course Willie Mays, along with Mickey Mantle, were very fast but their role on their teams like you said for Mays in the 60s was not to steal bases. Since they were not a threat to steal, their threat rating (called running speed by the developers) is not as high as some other players.
If they actually do try to steal a base, then that result will be based on their stealing base rating. How often the try to steal will be based on their speed rating, if the team is controlled by the AI.
At least that is how I understand it.

But that's just one component of the Speed stat. It also covers moving between the bases (at least I hope and believe it does). You wouldn't want Willie Mays being a sloth on the basepaths just because he didn't get the green light to steal. If that's the case that Willie is slow in the historical database, then yes I agree with Mr. Pirates that it's wrong.

I suspect there's a problem when pulling stats for the historical databases, as I'm sure they don't really have any way to judge foot speed. So it probably pulls the "Speed" rating only from stealing attempts.

Ty Cobb 07-17-2019 04:48 PM

You actually
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirates (Post 4516091)
OK, then what is baserunning?

Plus I have seen Willie Mays in the early 60's have a dismal running speed.
I saw Willie Mays play in person.
He was not slow or average.

saw him??? I'm so envious. That must have been a real treat to see him in his prime.

Reed 07-17-2019 04:57 PM

It sounds like your definition of running speed is different than the developers definition. The developers could use a different choice of words like, “threat of stealing”, or something like that.
Of course Willie Mays, along with Mickey Mantle, were very fast but their role on their teams like you said for Mays in the 60s was not to steal bases. Since they were not a threat to steal, their threat rating (called running speed by the developers) is not as high as some other players.
If they actually do try to steal a base, then that result will be based on their stealing base rating. How often the try to steal will be based on their speed rating, if the team is controlled by the AI.
At least that is how I understand it.

Pirates 07-17-2019 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb (Post 4516155)
saw him??? I'm so envious. That must have been a real treat to see him in his prime.

I was lucky to see many great players. Being from Pittsburgh I got to see Clemente play on a daily basis.

It's a shame what they did to the game of baseball. The players are just as good, but the game lacks emotion and drags on forever. Players can't even learn to hit to the opposite field to take advantage or stop these crazy infield shifts. But that's a debate for another day.
I don't want to sidetrack the speed issue.

Reed 07-17-2019 05:11 PM

Ok, I am going to show my age. In the early 60s I lived south of San Francisco, San Mateo, and did see Mays, McCovey, Marichal in person. I think Mays was slowing down then, I remember thinking he was fast but he was not Lou Brock , Willie Davis, Maury Wills, etc. on the base path. IMO

Pirates 07-17-2019 05:17 PM

3 Attachment(s)
I started this new league, the Year 1963.
All 3 of these guys had above-average running speed, in real life.

Attachment 636534

Attachment 636535

Attachment 636536


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