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-   -   What Are The Best Settings For A Random Debut League? (https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com//showthread.php?t=261531)

The Game 01-18-2016 04:39 AM

What Are The Best Settings For A Random Debut League?
 
I have done various Rd leagues but i lose interest in them quickly for various reasons and i hate starting in 1871 since players like Bonds will hit no more then 10-20 HR til after 1920.
So in a modern baseball environment using real stats what are the best settings?

David Watts 01-18-2016 10:36 AM

The random debut league I'm currently playing started in 1946 and I just finished the 1977 regular season last night. I've let the game import historical settings/modifiers each year. I use one year recalc, with development on. 100 talent change randomness. I'm using the DH and I usually set bullpen size to at least one more pitcher than the game calls for. I set my minimum year for player imports to 1902, as I don't think random debut deals with pre-1900 pitchers in a realistic manner. My home run king so far career wise is Vlad Guerrero with somewhere around 477. Season wise, Cecil Fielder just hit 59 for the 77 season, breaking the previous record of 56. Cecil also broke the single season RBI record with 161. I guess I should mention that I use the high(realistic) injury setting as well.

I plan on locking the modifiers/strategy settings in once I reach the 1982 or 84 season. Just don't want to get into the low stamina, pitchers go a 1/3 of an inning period. Plus, I've quick simmed a few random debut leagues through the 90's, up to current day and I find the numbers get a little wonky and exaggerated. I don't want guys hitting 80-90 homers.

I tried random debut during the deadball period and quit for the very reason you stated above. Guys like Richie Sexson, Rob Deer, Dave Kingman just don't translate to that period and I get bored fast.

actionjackson 01-18-2016 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Game (Post 3971913)
I have done various Rd leagues but i lose interest in them quickly for various reasons and i hate starting in 1871 since players like Bonds will hit no more then 10-20 HR til after 1920.
So in a modern baseball environment using real stats what are the best settings?

You could still play in 1871 and have normal (or even inflated) HR totals if you set your stats output to a year of your choosing, and uncheck the box that says to import LTMs for each successive season. I use 1984 for my stats output and my PCMs and strategy settings. So, even though it's 1901 every bullpen has six pitchers and five man rotations are the standard. You could use a "steroid" year, but be forwarned that Sir Spritze has said this results in totally kooky HR numbers and you may not like that either. The possibilities are limitless really. :) I also use a 162 game schedule every year regardless of whether there was one or not and have a DH in the American League and no DH in the National League.

Mike D 01-18-2016 09:51 PM

Most fun I had with a random debut league was start with a fictional league in 2014, and then used the random debut for the draft pool.

actionjackson 01-22-2016 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts (Post 3971936)
The random debut league I'm currently playing started in 1946 and I just finished the 1977 regular season last night. I've let the game import historical settings/modifiers each year. I use one year recalc, with development on. 100 talent change randomness. I'm using the DH and I usually set bullpen size to at least one more pitcher than the game calls for. I set my minimum year for player imports to 1902, as I don't think random debut deals with pre-1900 pitchers in a realistic manner. My home run king so far career wise is Vlad Guerrero with somewhere around 477. Season wise, Cecil Fielder just hit 59 for the 77 season, breaking the previous record of 56. Cecil also broke the single season RBI record with 161. I guess I should mention that I use the high(realistic) injury setting as well.

I plan on locking the modifiers/strategy settings in once I reach the 1982 or 84 season. Just don't want to get into the low stamina, pitchers go a 1/3 of an inning period. Plus, I've quick simmed a few random debut leagues through the 90's, up to current day and I find the numbers get a little wonky and exaggerated. I don't want guys hitting 80-90 homers.

I tried random debut during the deadball period and quit for the very reason you stated above. Guys like Richie Sexson, Rob Deer, Dave Kingman just don't translate to that period and I get bored fast.

Are you using the DH in both leagues? As for the 1902 limit, I see your point, but I go back and forth on this one because I can't stand the thought of excluding Cy Young, Honus Wagner, Kid Nichols, Nap Lajoie, Cap Anson, Christy Mathewson, Roger Connor, Dan Brouthers, Eddie Plank, George Davis etc etc etc. Those are some all-timers, and it would somehow feel wrong for me to arbitrarily decide they can't play in my world. Yeah, I'm an old softy. :o Guilty as charged. :p

In order to get around the whole deadball era problem, you could set it up so that you auto-calc the stats from a season that doesn't have those issues. I started in 1901 using 1984 for my stats base, strategy settings and PCMs and I've waltzed right through the deadball era with decent results. In the deadest of the deadball years (1908), a 23 year old Dave Kingman socked 31 HR, 112 RBI, and struck out 186 times (all led the NL), and even managed to steal 32 bases (lots of stolen bases to go around when you use 1984 :D , and he did steal 16 IRL).

"Kong" just hit his 500th HR at the end of 1922. Frank Robinson has 510 and that's it for 500 HR hitters over 22 seasons so far. I had a blip where I was adjusting the HR modifier upwards because there just weren't enough HR being hit, but then I had a season where 18 guys hit 30 or more, including 6 with 40 or more, and decided to leave well enough alone and let the talent in the game determine how many HR there are gonna be. At least that's how I'll do it when I stop tinkering with this test league, and get going on my "real" league. :p

I have 4 HoFers so far: Zach Greinke, Paul Goldschmidt, Ewell Blackwell, and Thurman Munson. All were short career, high peak guys. Frank Robinson is still going and has been an absolute beast with 6 MVPs, 4 2nd place MVP votes, and 2 3rd place MVP votes to go with 1 ROY, 15 All-Star selections, 13 Silver Sluggers, 2 Gold Gloves, 2 Championships, and 1 World Series MVP. I guess the only question is will he be unanimous or not?

As for my settings, I use 3 yr recalc double weighted, with player development on and all those settings at default. I use the DH in the AL, no DH in the NL, use a 162 game schedule, top two teams in each league make the playoffs. I use the 1984 strategy settings, so my game has five-man rotations, with six-man bullpens, 14 position players on each team. Injuries on "high (realistic modern day)", position player fatigue on "average" seems to yield the most realistic results for me in terms of enough players getting enough plate appearances per season.

I have a custom schedule I made for this league, which I suppose I could take as far back as 1882 in the future if I want to (16 teams in 1882 I think), but I think I prefer to start in 1901 when all the uniforms are as they should be etc. I use a five round draft, and I think I'll start importing 2 non-MLB players (PCL, NPB, Negro Leaguers who didn't play MLB) from the Spritze database for every draft with the import historical player tool (I use the default database neutralized stats for my MLBers), as well as an entire round of them for the inaugural draft, so 45 players per team at the start, and 82 players entering with each draft. My Player Evaluation AI settings are set to 10/60/20/10. This post is getting rather lengthy so I'll end it here. The Game, let me know if there are any other settings you want to know about OK? ;)

David Watts 01-22-2016 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson (Post 3973546)
Are you using the DH in both leagues? As for the 1902 limit, I see your point, but I go back and forth on this one because I can't stand the thought of excluding Cy Young, Honus Wagner, Kid Nichols, Nap Lajoie, Cap Anson, Christy Mathewson, Roger Connor, Dan Brouthers, Eddie Plank, George Davis etc etc etc. Those are some all-timers, and it would somehow feel wrong for me to arbitrarily decide they can't play in my world. Yeah, I'm an old softy. :o Guilty as charged. :p

In order to get around the whole deadball era problem, you could set it up so that you auto-calc the stats from a season that doesn't have those issues. I started in 1901 using 1984 for my stats base, strategy settings and PCMs and I've waltzed right through the deadball era with decent results. In the deadest of the deadball years (1908), a 23 year old Dave Kingman socked 31 HR, 112 RBI, and struck out 186 times (all led the NL), and even managed to steal 32 bases (lots of stolen bases to go around when you use 1984 :D , and he did steal 16 IRL).

"Kong" just hit his 500th HR at the end of 1922. Frank Robinson has 510 and that's it for 500 HR hitters over 22 seasons so far. I had a blip where I was adjusting the HR modifier upwards because there just weren't enough HR being hit, but then I had a season where 18 guys hit 30 or more, including 6 with 40 or more, and decided to leave well enough alone and let the talent in the game determine how many HR there are gonna be. At least that's how I'll do it when I stop tinkering with this test league, and get going on my "real" league. :p

I have 4 HoFers so far: Zach Greinke, Paul Goldschmidt, Ewell Blackwell, and Thurman Munson. All were short career, high peak guys. Frank Robinson is still going and has been an absolute beast with 6 MVPs, 4 2nd place MVP votes, and 2 3rd place MVP votes to go with 1 ROY, 15 All-Star selections, 13 Silver Sluggers, 2 Gold Gloves, 2 Championships, and 1 World Series MVP. I guess the only question is will he be unanimous or not?

As for my settings, I use 3 yr recalc double weighted, with player development on and all those settings at default. I use the DH in the AL, no DH in the NL, use a 162 game schedule, top two teams in each league make the playoffs. I use the 1984 strategy settings, so my game has five-man rotations, with six-man bullpens, 14 position players on each team. Injuries on "high (realistic modern day)", position player fatigue on "average" seems to yield the most realistic results for me in terms of enough players getting enough plate appearances per season.

I have a custom schedule I made for this league, which I suppose I could take as far back as 1882 in the future if I want to (16 teams in 1882 I think), but I think I prefer to start in 1901 when all the uniforms are as they should be etc. I use a five round draft, and I think I'll start importing 2 non-MLB players (PCL, NPB, Negro Leaguers who didn't play MLB) from the Spritze database for every draft with the import historical player tool (I use the default database neutralized stats for my MLBers), as well as an entire round of them for the inaugural draft, so 45 players per team at the start, and 82 players entering with each draft. My Player Evaluation AI settings are set to 10/60/20/10. This post is getting rather lengthy so I'll end it here. The Game, let me know if there are any other settings you want to know about OK? ;)

I use a one subleague setup. 14 teams, 2 seven team divisions. 154 game schedule. I miss having the guys you mentioned, but there are so many players, I doubt I will ever come close to running out of players. Especially since my draft is only 5 rounds each year.

actionjackson 01-22-2016 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts (Post 3973549)
I use a one subleague setup. 14 teams, 2 seven team divisions. 154 game schedule. I miss having the guys you mentioned, but there are so many players, I doubt I will ever come close to running out of players. Especially since my draft is only 5 rounds each year.

Oh yeah. There are enough players for about 200 years methinks. :laugh: It's just...I can't let go of any of them. :o

David Watts 01-22-2016 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson (Post 3973551)
Oh yeah. There are enough players for about 200 years methinks. :laugh: It's just...I can't let go of any of them. :o

33 years in and I'm yet to have a guy reach 3000 hits. Vada Pinson retired with 2958. Rusty Staub is 35 years old and currently has 2738.

actionjackson 01-22-2016 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts (Post 3973564)
33 years in and I'm yet to have a guy reach 3000 hits. Vada Pinson retired with 2958. Rusty Staub is 35 years old and currently has 2738.

Ken Griffey Sr. did it in my league. He finished with 3256. Hal Chase has 2993 at age 41, but he's slowed to a crawl. Got three hits in 1922. :p Can't see myself putting either one in the HoF. I'm a WAR/JAWS guy, and Griffey Sr., while close to my threshold, isn't there for me despite easily passing 3000 hits. Same thing for Kingman and his 500 HR.

David Watts 01-23-2016 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson (Post 3973571)
Ken Griffey Sr. did it in my league. He finished with 3256. Hal Chase has 2993 at age 41, but he's slowed to a crawl. Got three hits in 1922. :p Can't see myself putting either one in the HoF. I'm a WAR/JAWS guy, and Griffey Sr., while close to my threshold, isn't there for me despite easily passing 3000 hits. Same thing for Kingman and his 500 HR.

Above you said you use 3 year recalc. What is the highest average a player has hit for a season? What's your highest career batting average? I've had 2 players hit +.400 for a season. Eddie Collins hit .405 in 1947 and Ty Cobb hit .401 in 1969. Wade Boggs has played from 1971-1978, he has a .342 career average. Ty Cobb has hit .341, 1965-1978.

actionjackson 01-23-2016 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts (Post 3973619)
Above you said you use 3 year recalc. What is the highest average a player has hit for a season? What's your highest career batting average? I've had 2 players hit +.400 for a season. Eddie Collins hit .405 in 1947 and Ty Cobb hit .401 in 1969. Wade Boggs has played from 1971-1978, he has a .342 career average. Ty Cobb has hit .341, 1965-1978.

I use 3 yr recalc double weighted for the current year. Hal Chase has my all-time high single-season batting average at .355 in 1915. Reggie Smith (absolute beast so far 5 seasons in at age 24) hit .352 in 1921, and Riggs Stephenson hit .351 in 1920. Some dude named Vin Campbell is my all-time career batting average leader at .321, followed by Hal Chase at .317, and Zack Wheat at .309. I only have eight .300 career hitters. Nomar Garciaparra is number 8 at .300 on the nose. Of the guys I listed, I'd say only Wheat is going into the HoF. Reggie Smith looks really good for it, but it's very early to be making such pronouncements of course.

I think the reason I'm not getting .400 hitters is that I'm using 1984 strategy settings, which means more relievers. IRL, there hasn't been a .400 hitter since 1941, so I think there's something to having to face multiple pitchers in a game rather than getting multiple looks at the starter. Just a theory of course, but I think it's why we haven't seen any .400 hitters in over 7 decades.

Also, in 1984 the league average was .260, and that's about what it's been over the 22 years of my league. Hard to hit .400 when the league average is .260 and you're not facing the same pitcher in all your at bats in a game.

Lately, the NL has been outhitting the AL despite not having the DH. Huge talent disparity I guess. Weird. :laugh:

David Watts 01-23-2016 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson (Post 3973690)
I use 3 yr recalc double weighted for the current year. Hal Chase has my all-time high single-season batting average at .355 in 1915. Reggie Smith (absolute beast so far 5 seasons in at age 24) hit .352 in 1921, and Riggs Stephenson hit .351 in 1920. Some dude named Vin Campbell is my all-time career batting average leader at .321, followed by Hal Chase at .317, and Zack Wheat at .309. I only have eight .300 career hitters. Nomar Garciaparra is number 8 at .300 on the nose. Of the guys I listed, I'd say only Wheat is going into the HoF. Reggie Smith looks really good for it, but it's very early to be making such pronouncements of course.

I think the reason I'm not getting .400 hitters is that I'm using 1984 strategy settings, which means more relievers. IRL, there hasn't been a .400 hitter since 1941, so I think there's something to having to face multiple pitchers in a game rather than getting multiple looks at the starter. Just a theory of course, but I think it's why we haven't seen any .400 hitters in over 7 decades.

Also, in 1984 the league average was .260, and that's about what it's been over the 22 years of my league. Hard to hit .400 when the league average is .260 and you're not facing the same pitcher in all your at bats in a game.

Lately, the NL has been outhitting the AL despite not having the DH. Huge talent disparity I guess. Weird. :laugh:

The year Eddie Collins hit .342, the league average was .264. Cobb's .401 the average was only .249. Don't you just love this stuff. Reason, I asked, I'm thinking I will use 3 year recalc for my next go round. One thing I love about 1 year recalc is you get the big seasons from players, such as guys hitting .400. But, you also get guys going from ace on the staff one season, to the bottom of the bullpen due to reality. Might be nice to not have these huge swings.

actionjackson 01-23-2016 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts (Post 3973700)
The year Eddie Collins hit .342, the league average was .264. Cobb's .401 the average was only .249. Don't you just love this stuff. Reason, I asked, I'm thinking I will use 3 year recalc for my next go round. One thing I love about 1 year recalc is you get the big seasons from players, such as guys hitting .400. But, you also get guys going from ace on the staff one season, to the bottom of the bullpen due to reality. Might be nice to not have these huge swings.

Interesting. Maybe I still have a shot at a .400 season. We shall see. :thumbup1:

actionjackson 01-23-2016 03:47 PM

I asked above, but do you use the DH in both of your sub-leagues or just one?

actionjackson 01-23-2016 07:46 PM

I just found something else cool about 3 year recalc. It gives you access to players the year before their actual debut. For example, Oscar Gamble is a 17 year old (18 very shortly) in my amateur draft this year, and he didn't debut until he was 19. Very cool. :thumbup1: I wonder if 5 year recalc gives them to you two years early? Not that I want to try it because I prefer 3 year recalc, double weighted for the current year. That puts 50% emphasis on the year in question and 25% each on the sandwiching years.

EDIT: This is not universal. Some players are debuting when they should.

David Watts 01-23-2016 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson (Post 3973712)
I asked above, but do you use the DH in both of your sub-leagues or just one?

I don't use a 2 subleague setup. Instead, I have a 14 team, 2 division, 1 subleague setup.

David Watts 01-23-2016 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson (Post 3973794)
I just found something else cool about 3 year recalc. It gives you access to players the year before their actual debut. For example, Oscar Gamble is a 17 year old (18 very shortly) in my amateur draft this year, and he didn't debut until he was 19. Very cool. :thumbup1: I wonder if 5 year recalc gives them to you two years early? Not that I want to try it because I prefer 3 year recalc, double weighted for the current year. That puts 50% emphasis on the year in question and 25% each on the sandwiching years.

EDIT: This is not universal. Some players are debuting when they should.

Not a 3 year recalc thing. Happens using 1 year recalc as well. For example, Ken Griffey Jr. debuts at age 18. Boggs debuts at age 22.

actionjackson 01-23-2016 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts (Post 3973809)
Not a 3 year recalc thing. Happens using 1 year recalc as well. For example, Ken Griffey Jr. debuts at age 18. Boggs debuts at age 22.

Whoa! Boggs debuted IRL at 24. Cool. :ohmy:

actionjackson 01-25-2016 01:00 AM

Update for David Watts (and anyone else if you care): Ed Konetchy just hit .370 in my league in 1923, while Rod Carew hit .356, so those guys along with Hal Chase's .355 in 1915 are my new top three single season batting average guys. Also Bret Saberhagen has stalled at 275 wins and faces the uncertainty of Tommy John surgery at age 37. He could be done, which would be a shame, because he looked like a lock for 300 wins. You never know ya know!

The Game 01-25-2016 06:47 AM

What I plan on doing is starting in 2014 1 yr recalc fielding based on career. After year 1 i will expand the league by 4 teams. Seattle Pilots, St Louis Browns, Brooklyn Robins & Montreal Expos. All HOFers will be deleted in Inaugural Draft. Spritze DB.
Should I have pitching Stamina at Normal. high or Low? I will use steals for normal and pen on normal.


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