No Dev Diaries????
 

Wish there was at least monthly dev diaries like Paradox does for its game. Think they do weekly or bi weekly dev diaries.

It really helps the fans and community immensely.

Their new game Imperator: Rome releasing on April 22nd already has about 40 dev diaries. There first diary was May 2018!!1

Always a good idea to copy others who are successful. And Paradox has been one of the most successful Independent niche market developers the last decade+.

Most of theirs are only a couple paragraphs and a couple screenshots. But its so vital to have that information exchange.

Not sure why its not used here. Something to think about. I even think each OOTP release should have dev diaries. Because hey why not?

Too bad Paradox (as a publisher) has the worst DLC policy in existence, nickel and diming their customers to death. Yeah, don't be like Paradox.

Disagree.

Take Crusader Kings 2 it is over 7 years old now. The DLC policy has kept that game alive as its still usually in the top 15 steam games every month. With new DLC pushing it top 10 to even top 5 occasionally over the last 7 years.

And every paid DLC gets a huge Free Update that works for everyone. And all the DLC are completely optional.Example I never purchased the India one because I never cared to play in India. So I skipped it.

Now yes they do graphic packs, music, figure pawn DLC that are all aesthetic only. But again optional. I haven't bought any of those DLC.

Much better than before they went DLC where expansion packs were a must if you wanted to keep on the updated patch version. When games last a decade long with constant updates and expansion you need a DLC policy like that. That's what most people don't realize. If it didn't exist it would be released in big $50 yearly expansion packs that would be essentially must buys.The way it works now you can pick and choose whichever one you want.

Heart of Iron 4 I never even bought an expansion pack and still load it up for a campaign now and then.

Cities: Skylines. Agree to disagree.

In my experience, Paradox releases games that are still in the Alpha stage. Please don't be like Paradox. It takes a years worth of updates and DLC's just to make them playable. It has only gotten worse since they went to the EA-esque pay for every extra little thing business model. They know people will pay it to make the game playable.:angry:

Cities skylines is only produced by paradox not developed so it's dlc is up to developers.

Just like pillars of eternity 1 and tyranny were produced by paradox but developed by obsidian. They had full expansions. Again the devs set the policy.

Alpha? Stop alpha games ate physically not complete. Missing assets that have fake place holders in place.

But anyway lot of Indy devs do dev diaries. Battle Brothers another recent example.

So the question is why no dev diaries here? Why radio silence? Why is that acceptable from the community? Just because of OOTP track record?

I find lack of routine updates disturbing. Even some alpha screenshots would help. Anything I stead of silence. Last word was in September.

Sorry that's unacceptable in the current video game market. Where constant updates are given.

Well, yes actually. Markus and co have a great track record of delivering and being reliable with what they say, that must count for something, right?

You think a developer is going to tell their publisher when they're going to do DLC, when it's going to be released, and how much it's going to cost? I don't. No way. Agree to disagree again.

Counts, that's why everyone doesn't ask about info for next years OOTP until a couple months from release.

But with a brand new title. Should be 1-2 updates per month up until release.

I'm talking 1-2 screenshots and a paragraph or 2.

Not sure why everyone isn't like yeah give us updates. Give us info.

Don't think it's an unreasonable request. Think radio silence is just a very old school way of doing things and not in a good way.

People have requested more in the past few months, but it's become clear that there won't be anything further until they have something more to say. So I think most people who visit this forum regularly in hopes of getting new info have just accepted the status quo and continue to wait patiently.

Yeah, when the whole thing was shut down a few weeks ago I stopped requesting info and just trust that development is going on. Doesn't mean I don't want the updates anymore (because trust me, I do very badly).

But I do agree with the OP that this is bad for publicity to not give us something.. we are all waiting anxiously for this game but have had little to no info on it (much, much closer to the no info side of things)...

Jim isn't Markus.

Do know Jim's history?

He's never said I'm working on a new version and not delivered.

He has almost never posted about how development is coming along. What little he has posted here is about what he normally does or maybe just a bit more:)

He does have a great track record and is reliable in what he says. Perhaps because he doesn't over hype or promise but waits 'til there is something to talk about?

I think Markus is great but there's been a couple of times he was excited and talked about something new for OOTP that didn't pan out. It's understandable and I don't hold it against him, he develops the best game I've ever played.:) That's just not Jim's way so yeah, you're right....

Jim isn't Markus ;)

Stupid conversation. Will one of the moderators do the rest of us a favor and close this trivial OP concern.

Not so fast. Sweed just made some great comments and IMO this is not a trivial concern so what he said made a difference to me.

Its just big turn off from the game with no updates. I mean Jims update in September basically said there will be no updates basically until release.

I just disagree with that completely in terms of the current gaming age. The successful Indy developers are way more communicative to their user base then ever before.

Especially with Early Access and crow sourcing and which devs have Patreon/Twitch to give updates.

Without updates/dev diaries there is basically no reason to check on this game or forum. Its like ok check back in August. That is just pretty lame.

I completely agree, I sometimes play a game that is in Early Access called Eco and they provide updates not only to the users but to the game itself quite often. Its not unheard of receive frequent updates from developers.. I'm not sure why that's not common practice with a developer like OOTPD but oh well.

The fact it's the 'norm' now for many games to be released woefully incomplete and wanting a full price for it under the guise of 'early access' is by far the worst thing about the current gaming market. I just looked up that Eco example, and they want $43 in my market for a game that is in early access, absolutely ridiculous. I sure as hell hope OOTP never go down the same route for any of their games.

Your choosing to point out a negative aspect of early access. Some gamers enjoy the early access experience as it's completely different then a launched title.

I never buy an early access title unless it's something like a 90 day sneak peak type of thing.

But early access, crowd sourcing, YouTube, twitch, and steam have also ushered in an age of communication between developers and end user gamers.

Whether a game ever goes into early access or goes conventional, most gamers expect open communication lines in the current gaming world.

FOF on the other hand is completely closed off and that is disappointing.

Honestly even OOTP is closed off we don't here anything about it until like 8 weeks before launch every year.

That is just very old school and not in a good way either. AAA games you even see all year at the cons and expos. You have gaming sites previewing it months and months a head of time.

Indy games don't get that mainstream media love so it's up to the devs to have open communication with their fan base. The fan base should even demand it.

No one here was saying fof needs early access just using it to show the larger gaming picture of open communication.

But everyone on here finds 1 negative aspect and beats it to death.

I bring up paradox who is probably the most successful Indy dev in gaming the last 20 years. Talk about how much they communicate a full year before release.

And people bring up their "dlc" policy. What's that have anything to do with open communication and keeping the fan base informed?

I never said OOTPD should go the early access route, where did you read that in my post? I merely suggested that developers these days are much more open in communicating with their potential customers and OOTPD 6 should be as well. That's all.

Yes, he did. His comments should be the end to the conversation, period. Those that have been around FOF for sometime understand how Jim shares his developments....

...oh wait, he really doesn't. He is usually to busy and focused on working.

No dont know Jim. No don't know FOF.

And closed communication lines doesn't make me want to change my "not knowing".

A dev diary posting would at most take 30-60 minutes twice a month. But it would inspire a new fan base.

You seem pretty defensive and hostile. Suggesting that open communication is not working. That's a huge part of any work when their is a fan base involved.

You can have the best product ever but good open communication and advertisement and hype will increase sales further. That's just good business.

Besides OOTP being involved in a football game there is not 1 thing on this forum that would attract a new customer that has never heard of FOF.

There is literally nothing known about the game. How could nothing attract new customers?

I just happened to see oh OOTP has a football IP all let me go check out it. Oh there is zero info about it from the dev and producers. Well that sucks.

Sorry but lack of communication for a new IP at OTTP D is just bad business. Plain and simple.

This seems to be a common theme in several post. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that the reason there are no updates is because there is nothing to update yet. Giving the "Masses" an update that says there is nothing to update a few times a month seems futile to me.Everyone has their own preferences, for me Waiting for something meaningful in an update is much more important than insisting that we be told there is nothing new to update frequently . If someone wants to discount the Company because they feel slighted on the information side, I guess that is their privilege as a consumer.

But that's impossible. To say there's nothing to update says there's no work being done. As long as work is being done there is something to update us with. Even if it's miniscule.

I have to believe that this company has been around long enough to know when something pertaining to a developing game is significant enough to warrant an update, WE WILL get an update. This post does nothing but prove my point that

jimmysthebestcop;4450698

No dont know Jim. No don't know FOF.
- Then don't judge him.

And closed communication lines doesn't make me want to change my "not knowing".
- Probably not, just keeps you asking the same question over and over.

A dev diary posting would at most take 30-60 minutes twice a month. But it would inspire a new fan base.
- As many others have noted, when there is enough to offer from their point they will. Let the work continue, if you lose interest, move on. I guarantee that once it's released you will be back.

You seem pretty defensive and hostile. Suggesting that open communication is not working. That's a huge part of any work when their is a fan base involved.
- Hostile? Not at all. Tired though of those that form judgement about things they know nothing about, either here or elsewhere in life.

You can have the best product ever but good open communication and advertisement and hype will increase sales further. That's just good business.
- Like OOTP will need any help in advertising this product once it is ready.

Besides OOTP being involved in a football game there is not 1 thing on this forum that would attract a new customer that has never heard of FOF.
- Then you have missed out. The is plenty of pre-existing FOF data which appears to be the foundation for the game. Look it up.

There is literally nothing known about the game. How could nothing attract new customers?
- same as above.

I just happened to see oh OOTP has a football IP all let me go check out it. Oh there is zero info about it from the dev and producers. Well that sucks.
- Your loss, you're not helping yourself here.

Sorry but lack of communication for a new IP at OTTP D is just bad business. Plain and simple.
- So what business plans have you published? Plain and simple, OOTP has history with product, FOF has history with product. Spend some time looking elsewhere and less complaining here and who knows what you may learn.

I would prefer they would set expectations of when a new update will be posted. At my work, I can’t say “I will update you when there is something to report”. Everyone wants an actual date or timeframe. “I will update you by the end of...” (day, week, month, qtr, year). I just feel something like that would help. Just set expectations which would allow everyone to look forward to that date and hearing an update.

Agreed, deadlines need to be set

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This thread is pointless since the power(s) that be seem to be saying that nothing will be said to keep customers informed until that power(s) decide it's necessary. No word since September? No problem. It seems to be a ludicrous management strategy that can only antagonize the potential customer base. But its their company and their potential customer base. So be it.

I honestly don't even understand the point of this forum. With the devs refusing to divulge even the slightest bit of information, and overzealous mods closing almost every topic for presenting legitimate questions/concerns, a discussion board seems practically useless.

I couldn't agree more. I have run software companies focusing on small to medium sized businesses for almost 30 years. If I had "serviced" my customers like this, I would have been out-of-business in about 6 months.

Comparing a game to business software is apples to oranges.

I was not comparing different software products, but making a comment about customer service. Customer service, last time I checked, is universal, whether you are selling software or used cars.

Of course, now you will complain I am comparing software to used cars, which is analogous to watermelons to raisins. ;)

I don't know about the 'overzealous Mods' but I do wonder why I keep visiting this forum since we don't have a clue as to what year or quarter we might actually see an update let alone a game.

Maybe they should just shut the forum down until there is some real news to talk about.

Keeping it open is like Chinese water torture at this point though I'll probably still visit it while it's open. It's kind of masochistic though now I guess.

Communication or not, I don't care because I am one of those who will buy the game on the date of release.

Having said that, I understand the point that you need to hype your games upfront. At the end of the day, the company wants to sell as many games as possible and the earlier you can reach potential customers the better it is for the sales numbers. Can't back it up with facts and figures but I'm pretty sure about that.

Without updates it looks like vapor ware. I mean the initial estimate of release will already be 1 year behind schedule if it comes out this fall.

And I don't think anyone actually cares when it will be released only that it will be released when ready.

Yet I purchase around 25+ games each year and my follow another 100 on steam routinely while they follow their development course. And the vast majority have some kind of routine updates to the public. Either monthly or every other monthly or sometimes even 2 per month.

Maybe if its a AAA game with so much pre hype they can get away without updating the public fan base. But for an Indy game. Its basically unheard of.

Even games in Alpha phase routinely have steam pages so the community can start discussing matters but those devs are releasing updates. I get OOTP has its own forum but asking for something like 15-25 sentences with 1 or 2 screenshots when they are available once a month until release is far far far from unreasonable.

And if the Dev's think it is unreasonable they probably need to adjust their way of thinking. All these different PC store fronts, social media, crowd sourcing its a different age. And in this gaming age the fan base deserves communications.

No one is coming close to asking for a release date. I do think asking for that is unreasonable. But regular updates to the public??? That should be a no brainer.

Like others have said there is now ZERO reason to even check out this sub forum so I guess I won't even be back here until the next official word comes out whenever that may be.

You had an update some months ago and you all jumped to the neck about not having MP coded yet...

So now we have to wait longer, no big deal for me as I keep enjoying FOF8, but I totally see the point of not giving more hints, as the feedback hasn't be constructive at all.

But haters gonna hate no matter what.

Props for Jim + OOTP Developments team! Make for us the best football SIM game ever whenever!

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It won't be alphaware. It will release when they are ready. FOF has never been known for providing tons of updates. It's not saying it's right or wrong, that's just the pattern.

The thing I'm always surprised never gets mentioned in these threads is that they announced a football game previously and then had to cancel. I understand the partner they were working with had severe health problems and I think even died. That's exceptional and obviously very sad but the point is, we all trusted a process, without updates, and no game. This must have been like five years ago...five years people have been waiting, there's really no excuse or reason that is going to be acceptable under the circumstances to people.


As many have said, can do what they want, but I'm definitely on the side of this is pretty lame...how am I to know if the project has even been abandoned at this point? If they have nothing to update after six months, I see that as almost synonymous with abandonment.


Not good enough.

If it had been there would have been an update ;)

You don't know that.....do you work for ootp/fof? It has been roughly five years since the original "release" goal as the guy pointed out.

Lets be fair here,You CAN NOT use the first Concept of an OOTP Football Game as your basis for this, The Developer Passed away and the Game died with him. It has Been 13 Months since the Announcement that Jim and FOF would be joining the OOTP team. So at least keep your complaining in Proper context with the relevant facts.

Is there a way we can separate the whining posts from the positive game posts?

Just saying.....

Yes I do.

No I don't

Not 5 years for the FOF verison :)

can david duchuvny read the diaries to us, if they start?

hope they have some crazy programmers... i hear they are a real wild crowd. women that toss men aside when bored, and p*nty-droppers abound. :p

i would hope "panty" isn't censored, lol, but who knows.

Its fine to discuss, we are all waiting on the game and would love more news.

Hey brett, seems you been around a while but few posts.

We had a similar issue here during the Franchise Hockey Manager development and the guys did start to offer more insight the game being made etc, then it turned bad as not every single detail mentioned could be included etc.

With the excitement around a new Football I'd think its wise to only show us something when its concrete, although I'd love some updates as well even if it was of blank screens showing early version stuff !

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