Using actual lineups from 2013 not completely accurate

[orbops]

I started playing a historical replay of the 2013 season using actual lineups, with me as the Dodgers as manager. I'm only about 15 games into the season, and have discovered that the actual lineups and rosters is only about 50-60% accurate compared to the transactions that occur. There are guys on the reserve roster that were not activated on the date the transaction log says they were, and that leaves a gap in the starting lineup that I have to manually change, and in some cases caused the incorrect starting pitcher to be auto assigned to start. Now I'm having to look at mlb transaction records before each game to verify that OOTP 20 is making the correct change.

Have others seen this behavior?

[pstrickert]

I just tried it. No problems with LA. Are you sure you have the AI controlling the lineups and transactions?

[orbops]

pstrickert - Yeah, the AI is controlling the lineups and transactions. One quick check you can look into is on day 1, is Yasiel Puig on your 25 man roster? He showed up on mine. When I looked at MLB transactions on the MLB site, it showed Puig actually getting called up for the 1st time on June 3, 2013. I also looked at baseball-reference.com for game logs, and it also showed June 3rd as his first appearance.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...&t=b&year=2013

On 4/15/13 - OOTP did NOT recall Josh Wall from the reserve list.
On 4/21/13 - OOTP did NOT recall Stephen Fife, from the reserve list. Baseball-reference showed that Fife started that game. OOTP inserted Kershaw into the 4/21 game instead, and OOTP inserted Kershaw CORRECTLY into the 4/23 - but now Kershaw was gassed from pitching in 2 consecutive games. That is what really caught my eye on OOTP's usage of real life transactions and lineups.

[pstrickert]

Fife was the SP on 4/21 for me.

Wall was a brief minor league callup, I presume. The transactions file does not include minor league transactions.

I'll let our transactions guru know about Puig. Maybe he can add an entryto keep Puig from appearing before 6/3.

[orbops]

In MLB transactions, it looks like Josh wall was called up for 15 days, and was sent back down on 4/30. I'll keep an eye on upcoming transactions on 4/24, 4/27, 4/29, and 4/30 to see if OOTP correctly captures those transactions.

[pstrickert]

Like I said, the historical transactions file does not include minor league demotions/promotions. The AI, however, will activate players if they were in the starting lineup on a given date.

[M's rule]

Here's the guru.

First, thanks to pstrickert for bringing this to my attention.

There are three things going on here.

Puig is on the roster at the start of the season because the game doesn’t take a player’s debut date into account. Under normal circumstances, a rookie will be available to his team all season, regardless of when his first game was. For the vast majority of rookies, this issue doesn’t drastically affect how much or how often they get used in their first seasons. But in the case of a highly talented rookie like Puig, it leads to an accuracy problem because the AI will use him as a pinch hitter or late-inning replacement as often as it can, even (and especially) before he actually played in a game.

The way to prevent this is to insert a couple of lines in the transactions file so that Puig becomes inactive on 3/31 (Opening Day) and is activated on 6/3. I have done that in the master file, but unfortunately the file isn’t due to be updated in the game again until next year.

orbops, you can accomplish the same thing by editing Puig to take him off the active roster and then bringing him back to active status on June 3.

Fife doesn’t move off the reserve roster because of a bug that occurs with a human-controlled team in a league that uses real lineups and real transactions. If you take control of a team, the AI leaves you essentially responsible for manipulating your roster. A player who starts the season on the reserve roster might remain there all season unless you manually add him to the active roster on or before his actual first appearance. When a player moves off your active roster (from a trade or a release), the AI won’t necessarily bring up a player from the reserve roster to fill that spot.

For comparison, I started a league in 2013 in commissioner mode but did not control a team. In this situation, the AI did move Fife to the active roster for his start on 4/21.

Wall does not join the active roster in mid-April, as he did in real life, because (as pstrickert indicated) the transactions file doesn’t include promotions and demotions. In a league where the team is AI-controlled, his time on the active roster (if any) will be dictated by circumstances. (I just ran through a 2013 league In a league where the team is human-controlled, you’re free to bring him up only for the time of his actual stint, or at any other time you see fit.

Bottom line: Taking control of a team in a real lineups/real transactions league is a high-maintenance responsibility. To be sure that your team has all the active players it should have on any day, you’ll need to visit the Rosters & Transactions screen before every day’s game and move someone off the reserve roster if necessary.

[orbops]

pstrickert & M's rule - thank you both for the behind the scenes detail on how OOTP actually handles real life transactions and lineups. I was under the "mistaken" impression that by manually running a team with the AI running all the other teams, that all real life transactions & lineups would be accurate for the team I run.

I will try changing the 'Manager Options' at the end of each day to switch to the AI, and then switch back to Human before playing the game to see if this gets the real life transactions & lineups to match real life.

On other question - I noticed that OOTP 20 put Mark Ellis on the DL on 4/26, even though the MLB transactions log shows Ellis going on the DL on 5/6. What caught my eye on this one is that an ESPN article on 5/6 says, "Ellis is eligible to return Sunday. The Dodgers carried him on the 25-man roster though he hasn't played since April 26, hopeful he could make a faster-than-expected recovery."

Did OOTP 20's transaction log put Ellis on the DL on 4/27 to ensure that the AI would not insert Ellis into the lineup?

[M's rule]

You got that right about Ellis.

The source material I used has an entry for Mark Ellis on 4/27 with the note "strained right quadriceps (DTD)." So yes, he becomes inactive on 4/27 for OOTP purposes, since he didn't play again until after his DL stint ended.

Let us know how it works to switch between human and AI on a daily basis.

[orbops]

I manually switched the manager options to the AI for 4/28, then manually switched back to human to play the 4/28 game. I switched the mgr options back to the AI after the 4/28 game, and advanced to 4/29.

I checked the transaction log, and it correctly activated Hanley Ramirez to the roster. Unfortunately, it also moved Matt Magill back to the reserve roster after I had manually moved him to the 25 man roster on 4/27 -- and Magill's move back to the reserve roster was not logged in the OOTP transactions log.

OOTP also added Peter Moylan to the 25 man roster, even though his MLB transaction log showed him not coming up until "05/31/13 Los Angeles Dodgers selected the contract of Peter Moylan from Albuquerque Isotopes." and not making his 2013 debut until 6/2. As you mentioned earlier, the OOTP transaction log does not include promotions. What surprised me is why Moylan would be moved to the active roster by OOTP?

I will continue to monitor the movement of Magill to 5/4 (when he had his 2nd actual start) to see if OOTP's AI moves Magill back to the active roster.

4/29 to 4/30 - I switched everything back to the AI controlling transactions and finished out 4/29, and looked at the 4/30 roster. In general, it was a mess. OOTP made the following roster moves:

* Puig was back on the 25 man roster (incorrect - probably tied to original Puig transactions problem mentioned earlier)
* Josh Wall was placed on the reserve roster (correct - matches MLB)
* Javy Guerra was not put on the 25 man roster (incorrect - since Minor League promotions are not captured)
* Matt Magill was placed on the reserve roster (incorrect - I had manually moved move him to 25 man roster before 4/27 game)
* Luis Cruz was placed on the reserve roster (incorrect - he is DFA on 6/28, and started multiple games between 4/30-5/19)
* Justin Sellers was placed on the reserve roster (incorrect - he was sent down on 5/8)
* Brandon League had been put on the reserve roster at the beginning of season and OOTP activated him on 4/29 (I had missed this one from the start)

CONCLUSION - it appears that switching between the AI & human as the one responsible for real life transactions for a single team does not work as intended. Unless I manually make and verify every transaction, I cannot replay a season using real life transactions & rosters. Hopefully this issue can be fixed in OOTP 21 or 22?

[M's rule]

I understand what you're saying, but the whole issue is just confusing.

I started a league in 2013 and left the AM in charge of everything. I didn't see the sorts of roster moves that you did. In particular, League and Cruz are active right away, so I can't see why either of them would be on your reserve roster.

Moylan isn't handled accurately because his promotion from AAA is not in the database, so he'll be brought up whenever the AI wants to do that. The same is true for any pitcher who didn't start any games.

The transactions file doesn't have any control over movement on and off the reserve roster. That's always going to be an AI call. Even if you take control of roster management temporarily to undo something the AI does, the same move is liable to be executed again the next day.

I don't recall that playing the game this way was such a pain in earlier versions. Something must have gone wrong since then. Clearly, there are problems that need to be sorted out for OOTP 22.

[orbops]

M's rule - I wonder if the design for the transactions log needed to be changed so that real life transactions are more accurately reflected to include minor league promotions/demotions.

• Concerning the Puig rookie issue, MLB teams seem to be holding back their future stars more and more just to retain an additional year of service. Guys like Ronald Acuna, Vlad Guerrero Jr, Bryce Harper, Kris Bryant, George Springer, and Evan Longoria were all held back - and this means OOTP will potentially have them on the roster up to a month early, possibly impacting tight races for the division (list taken from https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthony...h=2c2858f62b5a).
• you mention, "because the game doesn’t take a player’s debut date into account." - wouldn't this also impact any September callups where a rookie has a hot September, but OOTP may utilize him all season?

1. Concerning bereavement and paternity leaves - how are those handled by the transactions log?

[pstrickert]

I'm sure Kim will chime in. But just a reminder that we don't have access to all minor league movement data; and even the data we can access may not be entirely accurate; and, of course, obtaining the data, verifying it, and translating it to the transactions database format all requires manual labor by volunteers. Simply put, it would be a Herculean task.

[orbops]

I would be interested in volunteering. I'll PM you and M's rule...

[pstrickert]

Be sure to contact Kim (M's rule) also.

[orbops]

Since OOTP 22 is being released soon, I was wondering if this roster issue with rookies has been fixed in OOTP 22?

[pstrickert]

I received your PM. Kim fixed a whole host of problems for OOTP22. He can say more, once he sees this thread. Unless you have a database of accurate minor league transactions, I don't see them being added anytime soon.