The 2023 NFL Season Thread

[Amazin69]

Originally Posted by thehef

Shanahan had a reason for wanting the ball first He wanted the ball third to go for the sudden death win in case both teams did the same thing - punt, FG, or TD - on their opening possessions.

Problem with that scenario…you have to make it past second to get to third. This gave Reid the choice to be as aggressive as need be to win it before the 3rd possession happens.

SF punts? Reid goes for it on 4th down, just looking for the first down that can bring them in Butker's range.

SF FG? Reid is aggressive in the Red Zone and we saw how that worked.

SF TD? After Mahomes (in theory) leads KC to a TD in response, Reid goes for 2.

Shanahan gave Reid an advantage that had the ability to negate the advantage Kyle was aiming for.

********************

Some of you may know that Pat McAfee is once more doing WWE commentary. From tonight's main event…

PAT (after a "surprising" escape from a pin attempt) And this match is going into overtime! Just like the Super Bowl yesterday!

PbP MAN: I think that [fan favorite wrestler] knows the rules, though.

Getting mocked by the guys calling the "sports entertainment". Ouch, Kyle.

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by swoboda

I have no problemwith Shannahan's decision to take the ball in OT after playing four really tough physical quarters. Put their defense on the field with less rest give your defense more rest.
Also , you're playing to win go down the field and score and stop them one time game over

This is where I land. The goal for SF's defense is to stop KC from scoring. Period. That's the best way to win in OT. Obviously, SF didn't do that.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Yeah, and I also know the training rooms are filled with players that have had a physical toll taken on their bodies from those 11 minutes.



I'm going to guess you never played in the NFL?

So what were your thoughts when McCaffrey checked himself out of the game? "Pussy"? You know, checked himself out, like Cowboy players, as well as all other team's RB's and WR do? What about teams that rotate out their best d-linemen because those few seconds of contact while rushing the passer are just too much? Shouldn't they just go back to the huddle, get their rest there, and be ready to keep playing? You think with their paychecks they would just stay in shape.

You're saying Cowboy players have commented on the conditioning of the players in the Super Bowl? Who the hell on the Cowboys is in a position to comment on Niner or Chiefs players? All the Cowboys know is how to play the regular season and then get their ass handed to them in game one of the playoffs, if they make the playoffs. Now, IF they ever get to play those extra three to four post season games I might listen to what they have to say. Until then? Nah.

I was only commenting on the part about being gassed. Running for 11 minutes in 3 hours should speak for itself. But I do realize the NFL has a ton of physicality involved. I can see where that will take it's toll.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by thehef

As described in Wetzel's article - https://sports.yahoo.com/how-kyle-sh...160726090.html - Shanahan had a reason for wanting the ball first - and it wasn't because of a tired defense or misunderstanding the new OT rules: He wanted the ball third to go for the sudden death win in case both teams did the same thing - punt, FG, or TD - on their opening possessions.

Is it fair to criticize going for an advantage that is far from guaranteed to happen? Probably. But it's also fair to point out that had that not unlikely scenario unfolded and SF had gone on to win by scoring on that 3rd possession, Shanahan would've surely been hailed for making a gutsy call...

And giving the ball to Mahomes first and, potentially, third evokes - under the new OT rules - memories of the Chiefs/Bills shootout a few years ago, where Mahomes getting the ball 3rd yesterday would be like him getting the ball first in that game against the Bills... In that scenario, Shanahan would be open to the criticism of that choice if the OT had played out as KC TD, 9er TD, KC TD: "Shanahan's OT Blunder - Giving Mahomes the Ball Twice."

He wanted the ball 3rd? Here's what he wasn't considering. He may never have gotten the ball 3rd.

If the 49ers go down and get a TD, then the Chiefs match, who says the Chiefs won't go for two? That might be their only chance to win. Otherwise they'd have to hold the 49ers from getting a FG.

If you were the 49ers coach and the Chiefs scored 7 first, then you matched, would you kickoff to Mahomes? Or go for 2? I know I would go for 2.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I don't compare what I do playing HS & rec leagues to what PROFESSIONAL athletes do. It's different.

And what Lawrence said about being burned out was a poor excuse, not reality. Whether he was talking about physically or mentally.

Having said that, I could twist it & say their being "burned out" was a result of playing & practicing for 5 months a grueling game.

I can just say from my experience, I've been on the sidelines for college football, the baseline for NBA basketball, at the glass for the NHL & the bleachers for the MLB. And each time I was blown away at the speed and physicality and coordination & quick thinking it took to be at that level. And I imagine I would think the same about soccer players if I got to see the World Cup or something up close. There is no way on earth I would ever say either sport wasn't physically taxing.

Yeah, makes sense. I was just going by what I've experienced, and it certainly wasn't at the pro level. Full court basketball, hockey, and soccer used to have me gasping unless I was in top physical condition. Football, not even close. But I didn't have to deal with the physical nature of the NFL.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

He wanted the ball 3rd? Here's what he wasn't considering. He may never have gotten the ball 3rd.

If the 49ers go down and get a TD, then the Chiefs match, who says the Chiefs won't go for two? That might be their only chance to win. Otherwise they'd have to hold the 49ers from getting a FG.

If you were the 49ers coach and the Chiefs scored 7 first, then you matched, would you kickoff to Mahomes? Or go for 2? I know I would go for 2.

KC said in the scenarios they talked among themselves, they would go for 2.

The other thing is, if you are saying you want the 3rd possession, you are saying you don't trust your defense. One that @ that point, had given up one TD that came off a fluke bounce on a punt.

I'm hearing from sports talk post game analytics agrees w/Shanahan. Which I'm glad, because it is another blow to the math nerds. What I don't get is if the calculators do say to take the ball 1st, why didn't it also say inside the red zone in that situation is 4 down territory?

But as I've said before, analytics can only tell me what an average team vs an average team "should" do. It can't tell me what I should do if it is the SB, I've lost my starting LB, I'm going against the best secondary in the league, & the other team has a HOF QB & my defense is tired from a long drive.

Analytics are a tool. Not a Bible.

[pilight]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

The other thing is, if you are saying you want the 3rd possession, you are saying you don't trust your defense. One that @ that point, had given up one TD that came off a fluke bounce on a punt.

OTOH the Chiefs had easily driven the length of the field to tie the game at the end of the 4th quarter and were kept from the endzone only by the clock. They scored on each of their last three drives in regulation.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by pilight

OTOH the Chiefs had easily driven the length of the field to tie the game at the end of the 4th quarter and were kept from the endzone only by the clock. They scored on each of their last three drives in regulation.

This. There was no expectation that the 49'ers had the ability to stop KC from scoring, at the end of regulation. The Chiefs were clicking on all cylinders at that point.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by pilight

OTOH the Chiefs had easily driven the length of the field to tie the game at the end of the 4th quarter and were kept from the endzone only by the clock. They scored on each of their last three drives in regulation.

In retrospect, Shanahan would have been correct. I'm just asking what is the message you want to send to your team? If I'm playing for a 3rd possession I'm saying my D won't stop KC or my O won't score when they have the ball. Either one doesn't instill confidence.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by pilight

OTOH the Chiefs had easily driven the length of the field to tie the game at the end of the 4th quarter and were kept from the endzone only by the clock. They scored on each of their last three drives in regulation.

Originally Posted by dsvitak

This. There was no expectation that the 49'ers had the ability to stop KC from scoring, at the end of regulation. The Chiefs were clicking on all cylinders at that point.

Yup. Of the many plays and decisions that decided Super Bowl LVIII, Shanahan's decision to receive the ball in OT ranks well below things like a) Mahomes and the Chiefs firing on all cylinders in the late stages of the game, and b) the Niners being somewhat on their heels... IOW, it's not hard to envision - if Shanahan had decided to kick off to start OT - the Chiefs marching down the field for TD's on two possessions. (True, Shanahan would've had the option of going for two in the even the Niners also scored a TD on their possession. But as we a know a 2-pt conversion is far from a guarantee.)

Under the new playoff OT rules, there are a number of different ways things can play out, and the only sure thing is that whichever team wins the coin toss is going to get either credit or blame for their decision - regardless of what it is - but wholly dependent upon whether they win or lose. The only exception would be that if the first few possessions result in no points, making the kick-or-receive decision merely a footnote.

[Ragnar]

I think CONN CHRIS had it right. Just play a 15 minute OT in the playoffs. They can keep the new rule that it just extends into the 2nd quarter. If at the end of the first quarter of OT it remains a tie, next score wins. Real simple. No need to complicate things. And the game is played like it should be played without any advantages.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Hope Araiza gets every penny he can bleed from these bloodsuckers & he can resume his NFL career.

Araiza signed w/KC. Here's hoping he has a long career. He deserves it after the "world" falsely accused him of being a violent sexual predator