Update on Patch #2!

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by SidHickenbottom

I'm concerned with the problem being framed as "not having enough 20-22 year olds" in the bigs. Development issues, especially in fictional leagues, seem far more severe that than over time. I guess that's not "unplayable," of course, but it leaves a player very unlikely to start a save they plan to stick with.

That's far from the only thing we've adjusted here. But that's also the real main thing that's could even remotely be called 'unplayable', which someone saying that was the context of my post about the 20-22 year old guys.

Maybe the adjustments we made to the initial ratings of draft and IFAFA guys as well, since that really didn't help them develop at the right speed to start off pretty low.

A lot of the other things other things are things like having the AI release more older and bad players to give younger ones a chance to move up quicker in the minors and tweaking hitters developments ages a bit, as well as making some tweaks to have a few more star level players and a few less fully developed older marginal big league guys (Since there were too many of these, they ended up getting stuck at AA and even A and threw things off for the younger guys).

It's pretty minor stuff relatively speaking when you look at each change individually. Though I suppose the cumulative effect of a lot of these things ends up being pretty major, especially in certain leagues.

[BestbatBoy]

Originally Posted by Jordan

If you read this thread, you would find exactly the opposite of what you described

Yet every post I make gets deleted if I critique the game

[Carplos]

Originally Posted by BestbatBoy

Yet every post I make gets deleted if I critique the game

i dont even believe this is happening, but if it is, it's because you're a troll, not a critic.

[jcard]

I am not interested in debating semantics about playability, the exact parameters of the problems, or whether a specific problem was foreseeable versus is representative of the “known unknowns” whose unmasking is the inevitable trade-off of offering so much customization to so many people.

The concern is that there are (a) enough bugs (b) of a large enough impact for a product marketed as a realistic and immersive simulation (c) evident in pretty much out-of-the-box simulating on (default) conditions that surely at least SOME of them should have been flagged by an honest and committed play-testing effort.

That this an annual matter with each new release only compounds the impressions of complacency and disrespect for the consumer’s time, money, and loyalty.

[slugga27]

Was there any update made to the pre-game screen? I don’t see anything on the change list.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mysonjhon99]

Originally Posted by jcard

I am not interested in debating semantics about playability, the exact parameters of the problems, or whether a specific problem was foreseeable versus is representative of the “known unknowns” whose unmasking is the inevitable trade-off of offering so much customization to so many people.

The concern is that there are (a) enough bugs (b) of a large enough impact for a product marketed as a realistic and immersive simulation (c) evident in pretty much out-of-the-box simulating on (default) conditions that surely at least SOME of them should have been flagged by an honest and committed play-testing effort.

That this an annual matter with each new release only compounds the impressions of complacency and disrespect for the consumerÂ’s time, money, and loyalty.

If someone had simply opened a new save, skipped to up until about 2030 and had taken a quick look at the rosters or the prospect pipeline they would've been aware of the problems before releasing the game.

That would've taken a couple of hours at most.

It surprises me that they took notice of such problems weeks AFTER the initial release of the game.

It's not like these are ones that can easily go unnoticed

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by mysonjhon99

If someone had simply opened a new save, skipped to up until about 2030 and had taken a quick look at the rosters or the prospect pipeline they would've been aware of the problems before releasing the game.

That would've taken a couple of hours at most.

It surprises me that they took notice of such problems weeks AFTER the initial release of the game.

It's not like these are ones that can easily go unnoticed

...

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

Development for example is something we were continuously working on adjusting throughout beta and was already on our list of things to work on more in the first couple patches even before anyone commented on this.

It's just a very complicated area of the game and anytime you make a tweak or a change here, there always ends up being some more tweaks and changes needed in the other direction. So it takes a lot of time and effort, a lot of trial and error to reach the proper balance, and sometimes we can just run out of time to get things perfectly balanced before release.

[mysonjhon99]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

...

Huh.

If the devs were aware of problems such as

a) the initial CA of HS draftees & IAFAs being set so low it hinders development

b) problems with the AI managing minor league rosters

c) dev center balance with defensive ratings

etc. beforehand

and simply couldn't make it click reasonably enough until the release date

Well, then I'll just have to hope you guys grow in profit & hire additional personnel in the near future

At this point it feels more like an early access version of a game honestly.

You have to ditch your save after 4, 5 years max & dont really want to start another one because of what'll happen as of now

I just hope the upcoming patch is a viable solution to all this mess...

Good luck to y'all

[OzzieFan]

Originally Posted by mysonjhon99

At this point it feels more like an early access version of a game honestly.

You have to ditch your save after 4, 5 years max & dont really want to start another one because of what'll happen as of now

I just hope the upcoming patch is a viable solution to all this mess...

Good luck to y'all

Most all sports sims play a little off until the first major patch. Football manager is not immune to that either.

[low]

Originally Posted by OzzieFan

Most all sports sims play a little off until the first major patch. Football manager is not immune to that either.

This is why I despise annual release cycles.

[md40022]

As someone who manages every single game, I don't advance through a season as quick as most others do. That said, I have not yet noticed any lack of player development simply because I haven't advanced that far yet.

So my big question here would be, when the patch that fixes the development issue gets released will that require starting a new save or will the changes apply to any save that we already have going?

[venflaalachi]

Originally Posted by md40022

As someone who manages every single game, I don't advance through a season as quick as most others do. That said, I have not yet noticed and lack of player development simply because I haven't advanced that far yet.

So my big question here would be, when the patch that fixes the development issue gets released will that require starting a new save or will the changes apply to any save that we already have going?

Earlier in this thread i think Lukas or another dev said you wouldn't have to start over.

[synthbangers]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Here's the latest update we got from the hosting company on Sunday:



Because we don't trust them anymore, we have in the meantime begun to set up new build servers from backups. This sounds straigtforward, but is a ton of work. We even pulled Andreas out of retirement so he can help with this... We should be done with this later today if all goes well, so that we'd have a public beta probably on Tuesday at the latest.

That's a pretty insane report on the data center, wild stuff. Hope everyone gets back online and sending my well wishes getting everything back to normal.

[Francoeurstein]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

We'll have quite a few adjustments in the next patch that should make this all feel a lot better, but even as it is it's a real stretch to describe things as unplayable.

The main issue with development is really just that there are not enough guys that break out and end up the majors/high minors at 20-22 right now.

Beyond that, almost too many players do eventually develop well though, it just takes them a little longer, more until 24-26 (which is when most players peak in real life).

Maybe I didn't have the best choice of words. What I mean is that for the way I like to play, the current version makes it very difficult. I am 10 years into the future in a modern sim, and there are about a dozen position players with an overall of 50+ (perfect scouting) and one pitcher. Fictional players straight up won't develop. My experience seems to be different than yours.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Francoeurstein

Maybe I didn't have the best choice of words. What I mean is that for the way I like to play, the current version makes it very difficult. I am 10 years into the future in a modern sim, and there are about a dozen position players with an overall of 50+ (perfect scouting) and one pitcher. Fictional players straight up won't develop. My experience seems to be different than yours.

Even if players aren't developing correctly, there should still be highly rated players in the league all the time since the game compares against the league's own talent level for the overalls.

There may be something else going on here. It would be nice to have a look at the league.

Would you be able to post the save file for this league to Dropbox or Google and send me a link to it?

[SidHickenbottom]

Originally Posted by Francoeurstein

Maybe I didn't have the best choice of words. What I mean is that for the way I like to play, the current version makes it very difficult. I am 10 years into the future in a modern sim, and there are about a dozen position players with an overall of 50+ (perfect scouting) and one pitcher. Fictional players straight up won't develop. My experience seems to be different than yours.

I want to echo this, as this is exactly what's happening to me. 12 years into the same type of fictional set up I've played for years and there are next to no players outside of the seed players who have developed into 50+ talents. It's astonishingly rare for an amateur player, on my team or computer run teams, to blossom as usual, in long-term fictional saves.

[Braden]

Originally Posted by ChrisJNelson

Calling for people to be fired (which I haven’t seen) or being a dick to devs is uncalled for.

Calling the game “unplayable” is not hyperbolic. Just because the game boots up and runs on my PC doesn’t mean it accomplishes the goal of being a satisfying sim.

I love this game and will always support the devs but as of now, this game is unplayable for me due to the issues being discussed here like player development, and clearly I’m not the only one that thinks so.

I get how hard tweaking this game is but that change the fact that it’s a bummer I can’t enjoy it because of these issues at present.

I agree with you!

[Haiku]

Originally Posted by mysonjhon99

Huh.

If the devs were aware of problems such as

a) the initial CA of HS draftees & IAFAs being set so low it hinders development

b) problems with the AI managing minor league rosters

c) dev center balance with defensive ratings

etc. beforehand

and simply couldn't make it click reasonably enough until the release date

Well, then I'll just have to hope you guys grow in profit & hire additional personnel in the near future

At this point it feels more like an early access version of a game honestly.

You have to ditch your save after 4, 5 years max & dont really want to start another one because of what'll happen as of now

I just hope the upcoming patch is a viable solution to all this mess...

Good luck to y'all

Not playing the OOTPD advocate here, but Sports Interactive, the producers of Football Manager with their large staff, couldn't make the game playable until the Christmas patch, and it's still full of issues even after February/March. This is the norm with every iteration, and they typically release it in early November. Also, they never release new builds for the open public as often and as many as OOTP does. SI never provide updates regarding when the new build will be released or what it will include. It's fair to say that Marcus and the team are very responsive, keeping us in the loop and answering questions throughout the whole time.

[Guthrien]

I got a couple of my best picks up several levels though I don't have a current save at year 4-5. You could run sims and see the results of the top 5 college talents, but I guess that's what people are effectively saying.

I did make a mistake that I posted about, which is that the Draft talent pool was lower than 24. Not true. There is one funny difference, which it seems like when you increase your pool in 24 (which I did in some of my favorite saves), you'll get more top talent. I haven't noticed that in 25.

Reliver pay though, gotta get that one.


edit: I got bored and simmed a couple leagues to 2034 just to look at draft picks. IDK, it didn't look crazy to me. 1st round picks seemed reflective of reality (60ish % MLB). You can look at Rookie history which makes things a little easier than the draft list and shows some distribution by rounds. The AI is bad about keeping developing guys in their mid-20s in low level pro ball but there were still a reasonable amount making it and I assume all of us pay more attention to our prospects. This isn't at all to suggest there aren't issues, just that a random sim can show something suggestive either way. You'd have to do 100s and compare to other years of OOTP (but comparing it to WAR or signing history in MLB is probably better).

[ChrisJNelson]

Originally Posted by Guthrien

Reliver pay though, gotta get that one.

Yeah I’m not a fan of Edwin Diaz and Jhoan Duran each getting $30-40 million every offseason from somebody.